This transcript is for a free-form discussion which may contain spoilers for all the works discussed in the main episode(s) related to this Epilogue.

R: Hello Patrons! This is our very first epilogue! I’m Robin.

N: And I’m Nicole. And...

R: ...We hope you know who we are by...

N: ...Yeah...

R: ...now, since you decided to give us money, otherwise you wouldn’t hear this. Very grateful, thank you so much. Uh, wanna explain what our epilogue is?

N: Yeah, so we uh, have noticed as we review things over time that sometimes we both - we like our format, let’s put that out there first. We spent a lot of time on our actual episode format and how we wanted to - to - to set everything up, but sometimes we’re discussing a topic, and we’re like, “Man, we could really talk about this for another thirty minutes.” Or, we get that one book or that one series where we could have just a - a, one single topic be an entire episode, and we just run out of time to have things to say. Those are the ones where, uh, our - our section is fifteen minutes. If a section gets to fifteen minutes, it means that we had thirty minutes of material, and I chopped a lot of it, and so uh, Robin had this idea where, kind of like we did our - our “Mogget” minisode, for “The Old Kingdom,” what if we just revisit it later, and kind of just kind of have like a freeform chat, so we have no notes, no plan, no specific thing we wanna say. Um, these epilogues might end up being ten minutes, they might be an hour, probably not an hour, but you know…

R: ...Oh no, no, no, I would cap these at thirty minutes. Just cause...

N: …[laughs] Robin - Robin doesn’t want to make them an hour, but...

R: ...No...

N: ...yeah. That’s what this is. Just more of a, uh, a - kind of a just whatever our thoughts are on the book. Um, and we are intentionally...

R: ...Yeah um...

N: ...recording these right before whatever episode you’re hearing is gonna come out, so unlike our episodes, which we record whenever we feel like reading and recording that particular book, which is sometimes months ahead of time, these epilogues are going to intentionally be right before you’re going to be hearing them. Um, which we hope will maybe give us some more insight into books that we, now that we’ve had more time to kind think more about them, or we’ve read something else that made us think about a different book in a different light.

R: And these will be most, um, off-weeks counter episodes but not every time. If we do a series, we will only do one epilogue for the entire series...

N: ...Yeah...

R: ...as a general rule.

N: Yeah, we...

R: ...so every standalone gets an epilogue.

N: Mmhmmm.

R: If it’s a highlight and we have read more than just that book in the series...

N: ...I would - I would say probably...

R: ...Um...

N: ...highlights even if we’ve only read the one book.

(2:59)

R: No, I was gonna say, “Would we talk about the series? Or stick to only literally that book?”

N: I think we would talk about whatever knowledge we have. ‘Cause I would - I would even put forth like, if we read an interview with an author, or - or if we have had the opportunity to interview an author, and then this episode gets published after that interview happens, all material...

R: ….Sure...

N: ...that’s not fanfiction, all direct source material is up for grabs in these discussions. That’s what I would argue.

R: So, that’s a general shape so this couldn’t - this is a stand alone so obviously it can’t contain spoilers for more than just this book.

N: Yeah...

R: ...but uh...

N: ...spoilers for “Moon is a Harsh Mistress”...

R: ...I put - yeah. Um. “The Moon is a Harsh Mistress” by Robert A. Heinlein. Uh, so uh, one thing that since - is there - is there anything since you’re actively editing the episode right now...

N: [laughs]

R: ...um.

N: Yeah.

R: Is there anything that we talked about that you want to get to talk about more that we didn’t talk about more...

N: ...Um, well...

R: …’cause we recorded this four months ago, I don’t remember now, um...

N: ...I - I actually am not at the point of...

R: ...the specifics...

N: ...editing where I’m just listening all the way through. I’m still just cleaning it visually.

R: Ok.

N: Now, to be fair, I have done that for three out of four of our - our piecemeal recordings, so I’m almost done with that, but I haven’t just gone back and listened to it yet, um.

R: Ok cool, so both of us are...

N: ...Kind of in the same..

R: ...it’s been a minute...

N: ...thing. Yeah.

R: Ok.

N: And to be fair that is likely how...

R: ...One thing...

N: ...we’re gonna be, because we won’t be recording these while I’m physically editing most of the time...

R: ...Yeah...

N: ...anyway.

R: So, one thing that I still care about and treasure in this book that I think might have been my favorite non-traumatic thing but I don’t remember for sure...

N: ...Mmhmm...

R: ...was the way that polyamory and complex relationships are depicted in “The Moon is a Harsh Mistress”. I really really liked it. Um, I - I found the eh...

N: ...Oh, real quick...

R: ...the - the man - Mannie’s marriage structure was fascinating. Yes?

N: I didn’t - ‘cause we didn’t actually say this, these epilogues are not necessarily on trauma, but they can be. Sometimes they’re just...

R: ...Yeah...

N: ...we wanted an excuse to talk about this thing that we couldn't in the episode, which isn't always going to be trauma, just so you all know.

R: Yeah. Yeah, we - we dug into all of that in last episode...

N: ...Yeah...

R: ...for all of you, and yeah. Wanna get to talk about some really cool stuff ‘cause for a lot of these, we’re reading this because at least one of us liked it, uh. We are going to have books where we’re reading it because someone pointed out because they think stuff was handled badly, but for now, this particular book, Nicole already really liked it, I now really like this book. I plan to read more Heinlein, I just [sighs] haven't yet, because I um, if you’re tracking the reviews, you know how much other stuff I’m reading.

(6:22)

Um, but anyway with this, I just - I really, really loved the way the marriages were described, and the relationships, and the whole dynamic, and while I don’t like the idea conceptually, that on the moon women were a scarce resource, what was done with that idea...

N: ...Yeah...

R: ...is really cool and um, powerful, and the only thing that would have made it better, is if the protagonist of the book had been female.

N: Oh yeah.

R: That would have been that just extra - that extra like, just touch that would have been so much better, but...

N: ...Yeah...

R: ….I love what’s here. Um. Yeah.

N: Yeah, but to be fair, Mannie is a lot of other things. Um.

R: Oh yeah.

N: Yeah. The - the only thing he is not is female or nonbinary. As far as if you’re - if you’re like...

R: ...Yeah...

N: ...Now, not saying this is how to write a book, but if you’re analyzing a book for - for um - for representation and kind of marking off a checklist, the main character in this book hits a lot of - a lot of things. Um, he is a person of color...

R: ...Not only...

N: ...He’s a person of color, he is um, physically disabled, um, with a prosthesis, with a prosthetic, um, he is in a polyamorous marriage, and - um - and - an open polyamorous marriage, also.

R: Mmhmmm.

N: Um, um, yeah. Like, he just - it - it - it’s - it’s a very well set up and - and actually - so something that I - jumping off of what you were saying Robin, um, something that I actually have always really appreciated about this book in particular, um, even before ‘cause - ‘cause when I was reading this - when I first read this book I think I was in either middle school or high school. Um, and I also - I also owned at one point “Stranger in a Strange Land,” I think I got rid of that one at some point when I got rid of like books that I had owned but weren't like my favorites, um, but I - I kept Moon because I really like Moon. Like “Stranger in a Strange Land” is cool, Moon is… Moon made it to my favorite list, um, but one of the things I really - I really like about Robert Heinlein’s writing in general but especially on - in - in Moon, um, and this was something that I - like I said I noticed even before I was in a context where I was like analyzing books for what they did and didn’t have or did and didn’t do um, I really like how much the things that are there that are positive in Moon with regards to like - like our main protagonist is a - is a - is a person of color.

(9:34)

Um, our main protagonist is in a - polyamorous relation - marriage, and in an open relationship in that marriage. They are - they are diabled. They’re missing an arm, or like the lower half of an arm, like the elbow down I think. None of those things, even when we get like an in-universe explanation from like the main character to to someone else, none of those things are treated as odd, or like, something that you have to have explained to the reader because the reader might not understand because of where they’re from, like, it’s very much of a - it’s - it’s very much of - there’s very much a vibe of the main character gives explanations because maybe you don’t have the same frame of reference as him, and that is very much a thing, but it’s not - it’s not every other page we have to re-emphasize that the main character’s skin isn’t white. Every other page we have to talk about um, like how much a problem having a missing limb is, every other page we have to talk about how “Maybe you don’t like polyamory but it’s really ok because”, we don’t get that. Um, there’s actually - we go a good portion of - actually, speaking of the - with the - the, um - with the character’s ethnicity, like there’s kind of a thing where it’s like, on the Moon, several generations in, maybe you don’t actually what on Earth you would qualify as ethnically, because you never lived there. Um, so there’s - there’s kind of that where it’s kind of like, “Yeah, I’m ambiguously brown, but it’s ok. A lot of people here are. Most people here honestly, are.” Um, but it’s even more than that because we don’t actually get a skin coloring description of the main character until they go to Earth.

R: Right, because it didn’t...

N: ...It didn’t matter...

R: … it didn’t matter...

N: ...it really didn’t matter.

R: And the most - and the most amazing way that it didn’t matter wasn’t, “It didn’t matter, because he was default white.”

N: No.

R: Because he is not.

N: No.

R: Because that’s - that’s the way that a lot of books will treat it...

N: ...Yeah...

R: ...is just like, white - assumed white until not.

N: [laughs] Yeah.

R: This was...

N: ...This was assumed...

R: ….assumed...

N: ...racially...

R: ...human...

N: ...ambiguous...

R: ...until...

N: ...until clarified.

R: Yeah.

N: Yeah.

R: And even then, like - and we - we talked about the way racism shows up, um, in our - in our episode...

N: ...Mmhmm...

R: …so we don’t need to rehash that but we - I really, really, liked the way that this was casually a person of color, just doing stuff and living life and doing things because, let me say, I - I was not expecting a book from the 1960’s to have a polyamorous, POC...

N: [laughs]

R: ...um, physically disabled, main character, and the only time any of those things is a problem is when someone else is an asshole about it.

(12:51)

N: Yeah.

R: Um, I - I was not expecting it. I wish that I could have been set up to expect it and I...

N: ...just societally?

R: ...I - just societally….

N: ...Yeah...

R: ...I am disappointed that I was surprised because...

N: …[quietly] Hi Princess...

R: ...I - it should - it shouldn’t...

N: …[quietly to the cat] I love you...

R: ...emotionally have been a surprise to run into that. Um.

N: Mmhmm.

R: But it - it was, and like it makes me a little sad that I was surprised to have that be the case, but I’m so excited that that’s how the book is, because most books, that like, are older, say “Ah, there’s this, but like, uh it does that thing? But if you’re ok with it doing that thing then read this book.

N: Yeah.

R: And...

N: ...There’s a - there’s a lot of disclaimers on a lot of books, and the older they are, the more likely there is that - that disclaimer.

R: Yeah...

N: ...but...

R: ...yeah. This - this only has one, and it’s very minor, and it’s - like, it’s - it’s not a big deal, and it’s how it is in the text, and just like...

N: ...Yeah...

R: ...having the absolute minimum number of disclaimers, that I would give to someone about this book.

N: [laughs]

R: It is refreshing, and nice, and I - since like it’s been four months, a lot of the details have fuzzed in my head, but I just - just the feeling of, “You know what? I’ll probably read that again.” Like, I tend to like most things l read, but being like, “Ah, we’re gonna get - I’m so glad we’re doing epilogues at this point, and starting with now, because I get to talk about “The Moon is a Harsh Mistress Again”...

N: [laughs]

R: ...and that is such a good feeling...

N: ...Mmhmm...

R: ...that I hadn;t known I was gonna have, and it makes me really excited. Um, ah. I - did you have more things? I just - I don’t wanna go in circles talking about how much I liked the exact same couple of things, it just was done so well.

N: I actually thought it was - so, just so our - our - our - our audience knows, if you hear cat sounds in the background, our Senior Assistant Editor, for the last hour, has been insistently asking me to go downstairs to hang out with her downstairs.

R: It’s not time yet.

N: Yeah, and I think it’s getting picked up on the mic. And there’s a lot of it. There’s not way for me to edit it out, even if I was planning to. She’s very politely, very insistently, sitting very nicely, like, you know, just asking. But if I stand up, she will run to the top of the steps and wait for me to get there so we can go downstairs and hang out together. Um, I don't know why she has decided we need to hang out downstairs right now, but that’s - that’s what those sounds are.

(15:46)

Um, so, uh, with this book, I think there’s just a couple of - couple of other things that I like, I don’t think we got to talk about. Or we - or if we did we didn’t talk about them very much. Um, so, this entire book has like a - a concept of - it - it explores the concept of what is a right, and what - it - it’s framed as - there’s like a - the kind of iconic line um, that actually shows up in like, even as far as like memes and like uh, really gross right ring - right wing discourse sometimes that you’ll see, is “There’s no such thing as a free lunch.” Like that phrase...

R: ...Yeah...

N: ...is out there. But, as far as I know, I think it - I think this is the source material. Um...

R: ...Really?

N: I think so. I think I knew that at one point. If it’s not, I don’t - I don’t know where it’s from, but I’m pretty sure - especially ‘cause it’s from the ‘60s, like that is the iconic line from this book, is that there’s no such thing as a free lunch.

R: Right.

N: But the - but the thing is like, there’s such a - a kind of...

R: ...Such a specific context in this book.

N: Yeah, well and - and the thing is this book does a really good - it’s - I don’t wanna call it subtle, ‘cause it - it - it kind of beats you over the head with it a little bit, um, and it’s really everywhere in the text and it’s really the main basis for the, a lot of the discussions that happen between characters in the book, so it’s not a background, subtle reference at all, like this is - this is first and foremost a book about revolution for worker’s rights. That is what this book is. Um, but that phrase, “There’s no such thing as a free lunch,” um, is - is not about everybody, you know, like not being worth living or whatever. Like, it’s...

R: ...Right...

N: ...it’s so...

R: ...it’s not about punishing people...

N: ...so specific...

R: ...for lack of resources.

N: No.

R: Yeah, like...

N: ...It’s - it’s specifically...

R: …’cause like now...

N: ...yeah…

R: ...it will get used...

N: ...it’s - it’s so twisted...

R: …now it will get used to punish people for not having resources, and in this book it is “We’re on the Moon. Everything costs money to get here. Everything will cost money to be replaced...

N: ...Mmhmmm...

R: ...and thus being here, breathing your air is not free, in the most literal sense, but also...

N: ...Yeah...

R: ...your ticket to get here paid for some of your air, and you will need to do more things to keep paying to have air,” and it’s not like threatening, it’s just...

N: ...No, it’s just reality...

R: ...we’re here and it’s a - you’re here, it’s a scarce resource that costs money.

(19:03)

N: Yeah.

R: And...

N: ...Like, they’re - they’re in an environment...

R: ...Yeah...

N: ...where uh, if you flip off the lights, people die. Like, and - and that - that, “No such thing as a free lunch,” the specific - the specific discussion that that comes out of, um, is they're actually discussing, there’s a bar that - a cafe, bar, that they’re sitting at, that has uh, free sandwiches, but to order - to get the free sandwiches you have to order a drink. And it’s - they kind of talk about uh, Mannie talks about how um, ooh. Quick thought, ‘cause we’re talking about Mannie benign specifically a person of color, do you think Mannie is a derivative of Manuel?

R: Uh, I wouldn’t be shocked, like linguistically?

N: Yeah.

R: But that doesn’t actually mean that it has anything to do with...

N: ...It doesn’t have anything to do with...

R: ...his heritage...

N: ...his city or his - his heritage, no not at all, but it - it is - it is...

R: ...But honestly, I wanna say...

N: ...a first name that...

R: ...I wouldn’t...

N: ...in our current modern vernacular, is much more of a nickname.

R: But I would not be shocked if it’s just his name...

N: ...Oh no, I’m sure…

R: ...Like that to me...

N: ...it’s just his name uh, I just had that weird thought of like, “Huh, I wonder if the author like, picked a nickname and said ‘in the future, this would just be a name’”.

R: Yeah.

N: I don’t know.

R: But, back to the free lunch...

N: ...anyways...

R: ...thoughts that you had...

N: ...Sorry, with the “no such thing as a free lunch”, they were specifically talking about how if everything costs, and nothing is - quite literally nothing is free because nothing would exist on the Moon if they didn’t pay to ship it there. Like, this is not a question of a natural resource that just exists on the Moon is being capitalized upon. Like no, air is not a - a thing that is naturally on the Moon. Um, the water and the ice that they - that they farm is. The rock that they farm is, but also that is a very limited resource because eventually uh, and they actually talk about this in the book, there is a possibility of them actually farming very, very, much quicker than we have a threat on the Earth, uh, with fossil fuels and such, but they could very, very, very quickly - I think the book says within the next ten years, um, they could farm all of the ice and all of the rock and everyone would starve.

R: But even then, it’s not like the rock and the ice are free...

N: ...Well that’s what I’m saying...

R: ...because labor is involved directly, right, right.

(22:01)

N: Like that’s what I’m saying, they’re...

R: ...Even if they weren't...

N: ...there’s nothing...

R: ...even if they weren’t...

N: ...Yeah...

R: ...Even if they weren’t limited, they would still be labor intensive...

N: ...Yes...

R: ...so even without that limiting factor...

N: ...Yeah...

R: ...nothing here is free.

N: yeah, there is no such thing as plants that you can just go grab in the wild. There’s no such thing as...

R: ...Yeah....

N: ...just striking out on your own away from society, because you can't. ‘Cause you just - you won’t be able to breathe. Um.

R: Yep.

N: But it is interesting to me how that phrase and that discussion um, dovetail into a discussion of human rights and human survival. Um there’s this - there’s this very interesting juxtaposition societally to that point in the book where they’re like, “Ok, well if we want to guarantee rights for the people living here; food, water, air, shelter,” like they have to actually include like, speci - everything...

R: ...Yes...

N: ...granularly, like we don’t - we don’t...

R: ...Mmhmm...

N: ...think of oxygen as being a human right, other than just the right to life, right? Kind of bundle it all in - in that one. Um, but on the Moon, oxygen is not the same thing. It’s a separate - a specific resource that there’s a finite amount of, but so you put that conversation shoved against the conversation of, “Well, if somebody is messing around and threatening other people’s lives with their practices, and they die, ok.” You know? Like.

R: Yeah.

N: Like, it - it just - there’s this - there’s, a couple of times we see where, you know like, the law so to speak doesn’t really exist as like a - a structural thing, it’s more of like a social thing, and so you know, somebody has - is messing around with something that will endanger with something that’ll endanger oxygen lines, and somebody else kills them for it to protect those lines? Nobody’s going to say anything.

R: Shouldn’t have been messing with the oxygen lines.

N: Yeah.

R: Yeah.

N: Shouldn't have been endangering other people. What are you doing? Um, and uh...

R: ...And I...

N: ...yeah. It’s - it’s just, it’s very - actually. I don’t know how uh, how current day do we want to go with this discussion, ‘cause I just thought of a really good parallel, but I don’t want to go into it if we think it’s gonna be triggering. We can put the - well we’ll put it in the trigger warning but...

R: ...Well, I’d say maybe sticking away from real world parallels specifically um, especially here, um. I - one thing I did wanna talk about, is like, just how subtly the title works in the book.

(25:02)

N: [laughs]

R: Because, it’s not that they’re all obeying some dictator that makes them pay to get oxygen, it’s that the Moon, where they are, has certain rules...

N: ...Yeah...

R: ...because if you don’t follow them people will die and you’ll probably be one of the people who dies, and so just like, “follow the rules and do the thing, and then we’ll all be ok”. Um, and I - I like, when I first heard this title and given who the person was who was trying to get me to read this book, I thought...

N: ...which was not me...

R: ...it wasn’t going to like the book.

N: That’s - that’s - that’s not me.

R: No, no, no, it was not - naw - not - not Nicole.

N: This was years ago.

R: Um, yeah. Long time ago, um like actually like fifteen years ago, which would have been a little too early for me to read this I think.

N: [laughs]

R: Uh, like ten-fifteen years ago, but um, anyway I - I had this like picture in my head of like, “Is the Moon sentient and like yelling at people? Like, why what’s going on?” And so finding out actually how the title works, um, was really fun for me with this. Um, and then it’s just, this is - this is the reality and these are the constraints, and because it’s such a relatively small group, and the constraints are so obvious to everyone, if one person doesn’t get it, everyone can step up very easily, and say, “Hey no. This needs to happen...

N: ...Yeah...

R: ...for us all to be ok.” Um, and it’s - it’s a very idealistic portrayal, but there’s enough in world justification for why it could happen like this under these circumstances...

N: ...Yeah...

R: ...that it - it - it doesn’t feel forced, it feels very natural, like of course you really had, um, a community that’s this um, connected but also insular in this really interesting way...

N: ...Yeah...

R: ...that you could really have this connectedness, um, and so that was - that was cool.

N: Um...

R: ...I like that...

N: ...I will say too like it - it probably feels, and I don’t actually know what - where in the world the author was from, I have not looked that up, but I - I feel like too that it probably also feels to us like it’s a more of an idealistic portrayal just because we’re from the U.S. and the U.S. is so big um, and the U.S. has also like a weird thing where, you know the - the - the states - each state kind of functions as its own little, not its own tiny country, but like its own separate cultural thing, like, there are things that are, like, unique to Ohio or Indiana or Illinois, like to the point where you cross the state border and things look and feel and people act differently.

(28:17)

N: Um, there’s a lot of, you know, memes about this too, like jokes about Texas culture and Midwest culture and - and um, and so it’s - it is - it is a different experience growing up in a country that is so big but has like little pockets, and so, you know, you know that you’re supposed to in theory feel connected to that person in California, all the way across the country, but you don’t. Or, or you do, but you have no idea how that closeness would be achieved, and so it is different reading a story where everything is so insular because everything is so small, because it has to be, um and so I’m just saying...

R: ...even as...

N: ...it might read differently if someone from a smaller country or from places where, you know, people are more packed in dense. In the U.S. we tend to be pretty spread apart, even when we’re technically more...

R: ...even something...

N: ...closer to each other...

R: ...like, uh, for us, as Ohio natives and then Illinois and Louisiana transplants respectively, California is across the country. Hello if we have any West Coast listeners...

N: [laughs]

R: ...uh, the parallel analy- analogy across the country would be all across the country like...

N: ...would be like New York...

R: ...New York or...

N: ...Yeah...

R: ...something, yeah. Um, but yeah...

N: ...or...

R: ...it’s...

N: ...or Kentucky, like do you even know what Kentucky is like. I don’t know!

R: [laughs]

N: [laughs] Um...

R: ...yeah, we don’t know. Um, this is not the Midwest jokes podcast...

N: [laughs]

R: ...um, that would be fun…

N: ...Oop…

R: ...that’s not this...

N: ...nah I’m just kidding, uh...

R: [laughs]

N: ...uh, no, but it - yeah, it's just - it is something where, like to us it definitely, I - I just wanted to put that caveat in there that like there are, um, from - from I've - I've heard from friends...

R: ...I’m sure there are places...

N: ...yeah, I’m sure there are places where, you know, you kind of read about this particular like, set up and it’s like, oh yeah well that’s us now, but you know for us, um, for us it’s not. So.

R: Yeah, and it sounded really cool and really idealistic from our perspective. Um.

N: Yeah, also ‘cause...

R: ...Yeah, um...

N: ...America is not great in general, so there’s that. Um.

R: Um, so, I didn’t really - have anything else other than, if you’re listening to this and you didn’t read the book...

N: [laughs]

R: ...read the book!

N: Read this book…

R: ...uh, if you have time…

N: ...this book is amazing...

R: ...uh...

N: ...it’s wonderful...

R: ...this one’s - this one's genuinely one that’s totally separate from the podcast. I’m glad the podcast got me to read it, but totally separate from the podcast I’m so happy I read this. I enthusiastically recommend it, and like, if a book from the ‘60s could be this casually diverse, and representative without just copying stuff from Earth and sticking it on the Moon...

N: [laughs]

R: ...if it can do that, like...

N: ...Yeah...

R: ...you can - you can demand better from books...

N: ...from like modern...

R: ...that are like published now...

N: ...yeah, um...

R: ...Yeah.

N: Yeah, I - I will...

R: ...Don’t...

N: ...I will say with that, I know that there’s a lot of a discussion of like, you know, how to do representation so that it’s not just like - it’s not like you’re just avoiding the issue.

(31:42)

N: But eventually it would be nice to get to a point where that’s not necessary, and that every book could be like this one where you just don’t know and then it’s - but it’s in - it’s an integral part of the text and once a piece of a character’s identity is revealed so to speak, it’s like “Well, they couldn’t have been anything else.” Like it would be so odd to read this book assuming that the main character is a white man. That would be a weird read, because there’s so much discussion...

R: ...yeah...

N: ...of how the culture on the Moon and how different people and different places that emigrated there, and how - how mixed everybody is with each other, just from various places around the world and how like, it would be wild to read about all of this and - and see - and also to see explicit in the way things are named and the way different - you can like almost cherry pluck out like, pick out pieces and go “Oh, that part of their culture is from this place in the world today,” like you can do that. But - but there is...

R: … it ca-...

N: ...no part of this book that’s like a carbon copy of - of anything on the Earth, it’s like the author said, “Ok. Well, this thing survived, and that thing got mixed in with this one, and this survived,” and they canonically speak - everybody canonically speaks multiple languages.

R: I was gonna say it’s...

N: ....It’s so...

R: ...canonically and casually multilingual...

N: ...Yeah...

R: ...and there’s bits that - there's bits that explicitly are pulled from I think Russian and Chinese, that’s what I was able to...

N: ...Mmmmm...

R: ...casually identify...

N: ...Yeah...

R: ...just little bits...

N: ...Yep.

R: Um.

N: Yeah.

R: It definitely had a flavor. It - the - the focus on English, Russian, and Chinese, I really appreciated that particular mix, because it makes it feel like these three nations sent a bunch of people to space at the start. Like it has the feeling of, these were competing dominant languages.

N: Oh yeah….

R: ...Um...

N: ...and then they just all kind of blended.

(33:50)

R: Yeah, and I...

N: ...Yeah...

R: ...I - I really - I really like that, and it - it - it’s a very nice story telling detail, world building detail, where I don't know if they had - if the author had in mind specifically that those three nations started whatever, and the book doesn't say that...

N: ...No...

R: ...but just linguistically you can pick up that kind of a thing...

N: ...Yeah...

R: ...and it’s just nice, casual world building that I - I really appreciate world building based on language, like, one of the things that I’ll look for is like, how swear words are handled. Like, there’s nothing like bad…

N: ...Or, like...

R: ...like super...

N: ...our recording...

R: ...awkward...

N: ...or earlier, how hyphens are handled.

R: Yeah. [laughs nervously]. Well, heh...

N: ...It’s the same thing…

R: ...our recording earlier that you won’t hear for a month or two.

N: Yeah.

R: Well anyway, we will have a discussions about - discussions about hyphenated words uh, that you’ll hear at some point.

N: [laughs]

R: But...

N: ...Yeah...

R: ...uh...

N: ...it’s - it’s so...

R: ...Oh, I just...

N: ...it’s just all of that. It - it’s so - it’s so intrinsic to... everything about everybody is so intrinsic to how the world, and how the story, and how the culture is built, that it’s just one of those where, if you read that book and auto assumed, until we get to the point where the characters kind of, like racial perception from other people is kind of revealed on Earth, um, if you read all that and assumed that your main character is a straight white man, you didn’t read the book. It’s - and it’s great.

R: Please re-read it...

N: ...It - totally...

R: ...if that’s what happens...

N: ...it’s...

R: ...uh...

N: ...yes...

R: ...put in the time and like, we’re not, just, you know, “Read this, we liked it a lot.” Um, I don’t really have more things other than just read this book.

N: [laughs] Yep.

R: Um, alright.

N: So, that’s for tuning in...

R: ...So...

N: ...um to our - our extra...

R: ...thank you so much for joining us...

N: ...discussions...

R: ...Yeah! Our very first epilogue, um, super excited. Please tell us what you think, ‘cause we are going to keep doing these. Thank you so much Patrons, and we’ll, uh, see. Will we have another epilogue in a fortnight?

N: [laughs]

R: No? Maybe?

N: Uh, tune in...

R: ...Yeah…

N: ...tune in next week for your…

R: ...Yeah!

N: ...regularly scheduled episode.

R: Yeah! Tune in next week…

N: ...There we go…

R: ...for your regularly scheduled episode. Uh, do we wanna say what that is, ‘cause we know what it is.

N: Do we know what it is?

R: Yes? Yeah we know.

N: Oh, it’s…

R: ... we actually have…

N: ...it’s uh…

R: Hello Patrons, if you haven't been catching the posts, your…

N: ...Is it Animorphs?

R: ...next episode, no, it’s Salamandastron.

N: Oh, ok. It’s Sala - Redwall.

R: We already released it.

N: Alright.

R: Yeah! The Redwall series, Salamandastron, so catch us for the regular episode, for that, uh, and we’ll catch ya next week, for Patrons.

N: Bye.

R: Bye.