This transcript is for a free-form discussion which may contain spoilers for all the works discussed in the main episode(s) related to this Epilogue.

N: Hi I’m Nicole.

R: And I’m Robin, and welcome to the epilogue for “Salamandastron” by Brian Jaques. This is - Redwall was a very formative series for me. Uh, I really liked it a lot. Weirdly, um, this book is the reason that I read “Watership Down,” because on the cover of it...

N: [laughs]

R: ...it compared it to “Watership Down,” and I was like, “What’s watership down?” and I read “Watership Down,” and I’m like “Oh they both had talking animals, and that’s kind of it,” uh [laughs]. Anyway.

N: Oh my gosh.

R: Um, yeah, I [sighs] I really love this world, um this just - I read so many of these books and we did “Salamandastron” as a highlight of the Redwall series because it’s one of the early ones in publication order and it does a pretty…

N: ...And there’s like forty of them, and...

R: ...There’s so many of them and - its - and it’s a pretty good entry point. Um, you’re like a little ways in so some of - a lot of the customs are established.

N: Mmhmm.

R: ‘Cause also, Redwall pulls this thing where when - like “Redwall” as in the very first published book...

N: ...Yeah...

R: ...pulls this thing where the whole time, at least when I was reading this as a kid, like the whole time I was reading it, I was like, “They’re talking so much about Martin the Warrior, like I should know this. What have I missed?”

N: [laughs]

R: And Salamandastron doesn’t have that feeling and that’s part of why, at least when I suggested it as our highlight for this series, that was kind of in my head. That it doesn’t - it doesn’t really have that barrier. It’s just here.

N: Hmm.

R: It’s in this bigger series, there are established stuff but it gets to be the first time we meet the Guosim instead of, “What do you mean you don’t know who Martin the Warrior is?”

N: Yeah. Yeah there is definitely a, “What do you mean you don’t know the lore?” feel to a lot of the earlier books.

R: Yeah...

N: ...Which...

R: …’cause they’re...

N: ...which to be fair is...

R: ...trying to build...

N: ...not...

R: ...the lore...

N: ...is not [sighs].

R: It’s not bad.

N: It’s not bad. It - it’s very much a - like you get...

R: ...Like working a little...

N: ...to learn...

R: ….bit hard to establish continuity in the world, when it’s the first couple and then by the time it’s the later books, it gets to relax.

N: Yeah.

R: Which is you either know the continuity or you’re - or you don’t, and they’re not as worried about like, making sure you got it.

N: Right, but also the later books are not as like, canonically... timeline-building as like, the first one, like.

R: Mmhmm.

N: You know - like - like there’s definitely things about - about Redwall that don’t make sense without Martin the Warrior, and - there - there’s things like that where, like yeah, if you don’t have that context, the story doesn’t really mean anything, and so like the series does a really good job of kinda being like, “Hey, you should read up on the lore,” [laughs]

(3:02)

R: [laughs]

N: And like - like that’s really what it’s saying. It’s like, “Hey, we have a whole history. I know...

R: ...So...

N: ...it’s not book one but you should go read it,” it’s like - it’s just...

R: ...So you...

N: ...a really hard in-canon sell for the prologue.

R: Absolutely, and like there’s two good ways to read this series, like, one sad point, the author is dead. There aren’t anymore of these...

N: ...Yeah...

R: ...and so at this point the canon is finalized. Um, unless there’s some uh - I have not heard of anything with shadow writing more books for this series, and frankly I personally wouldn’t be super interested in reading those...

N: ...Same...

R: ...if that were to be a thing, um, I like these and they happened and they're done. So, if you would like to get into this series, uh, there’s two good ways to do it. One is to look up the timeline of, in what order did everything happen, and read it internally in the world in that order.

N: Yeah.

R: Or, the other good way is publishing order. I like that one, ‘cause it’s just copyright dates. It’s a lot easier to manage when you’re juggling a series this long...

N: ...Yeah...

R: ...because...

N: There’s - there’s also a third way to do it.

R: Oh what’s the third way?

N: The third way is in experiential order, um, that I don’t remember what it is but I’ve seen it outlined at one point, and it was bonkers. It...

R: ...Huh...

N: ...started out with... I think like a...

R: ...like...

N: ...it started out with a couple of - yeah - I- I’m trying to remember what it start[ed] - I - I should pull up the book list while I’m thinking...

R: ...Yeah...

N: ...of what it...

R: ...definitely pull up the...

N: ...is...

R: ...booklist, because...

N: ...Um...

R: …”third way, but we have no details” isn’t...

N: ...I know, I’m trying to - here...

R: ...a great list.

N: Ok, so I’m gonna look up Redwall books and see the entire list. Ok, if I remember correctly, and I saw this list back in highschool, so I’m probably wrong...

R: ...Uh huh...

N: ...but it started with - I think...

R: ...Can you start with saying what it meant by experiential?

N: Oh, like uh - like if you were researching the history of the world, where….

R: ...Oh...

N: ...would you start and how would you - how would you get the most out of each book.

R: Oh, ok, so that there’s...

N: ...It was the...

R: ...the most new information in every book you read? Basically?

N: Kind of, and - and...

R: ...Ok...

N: ...and if there was not new information you had the groundwork for everything and nothing was like, left to a guess. So I - if I remember correctly, it started with reading “Martin the Warrior”.

R: Uh huh.

N: Then you were supposed to read “Redwall”, then you were supposed to read “Mossflower”, then you were supposed to read “Lord Brocktree”?

R: Huh.

N: And then I think - it was either “Mariel” or “Outcast” next.

(5:57)

N: And then it kinda went into like some of the books that are - are cultures that are not focused on the Abbey, like...

R: ...Mmhmm...

N: ….um, oh no, I’m sorry, “Matimeo” was after “Lord Brocktree,” and then “Mariel” and then it went into things like “The Long Patrol” and “Taggerung” and...

R: ...Mmhmm...

N: ...and “Loamhedge” and - and “Rakkety Tam”, like you - you kind of got to experience the other cultures and then it went to - uh, like you got through all of those and then you went back and you - you read “Doomwyte”, “Sable Queen”, “Rogue Crew”.

R: Okay.

N: And so it was very much a, “Ok, here’s like the Abbey canon history,” but not in order. [laughs]

R: [laughs[

N: ‘Cause you read the prequel, and then you read book one, and then you read the middle one, and then you read the - the - the on directly after book one, and then you went back and then you read like the history of the other people, and then you read the books where they kinda all clash but it’s back to the Abbey, but it’s not a part of that original canon, and I didn’t ever read - I didn’t ever read them in that order, but I...

R: ... I might wanna try that order if I can find it...

N: ...Oh my gosh...

R: ...because I read - I’ve read most...

N: [laughs]

R: ...but not all of them, and so having a fresh way to approach the reading order...

N: ...Yeah it was...

R: ...would be nice...

N: ...it was - I - I just remember - this was a - I saw the list at a point in my life where I didn’t own any of them yet I don’t think? But I had read all of them very recently, but I - I - I am not that person where if a series doesn't have like a, published “This is book one, then this is next, and then,” like, I don’t tend to take those series’ orders as law, or whatever, and so this was definitely a series where I just kind of went, “Ah, this one next. Eh, this one looks cool. Eh, that one, this one sounds nice,” like I - I never really cared, and they’re written in a way where that - that [laughs] that lack of order, like is fine. Um.

R: Yeah.

N: And so I - I had read everything so I kind of had context for it in my head, and then I saw this like list, of like this alternative method...

R: [laughs]

N: ...or whatever, and I - I was able to like, piece through how it would work in my head, which is by the way, the only reason I remember what it was, looking at a list...

R: ...sure...

N: ...is because I looked at it and went, “Oh, alright. I see what they’re doing here,” um. It - it was...

R: ...That’s be...

N: ...it was wild to look through as a list, and just remember sitting there like - like, “This is such a” - it - it really felt like somebody was going, “Ok, if I want to experience this timeline and then I want context and then I want to experience this other timeline, how would I do it?” And I - I don’t remember which of the books it is, but there’s also a couple of sets of - of two books I think where it has - where they like, reference each other, and so like those are right next to each other on purpose, but...

R: ...Mmhmm...

N: ...they’re separate from like, the Abbey storylines, so it’s like.

R: So...

N: ...Yeah, it was...

R: ...moving away...

N: ...it was really cool...

R: ...from a chronology that we are not able to give you currently...

N: ...If I can...

R: ...If we do find…

N: ...figure that...

R: ...out...

N: ...chronology out by the way...

R: ...then we’ll get it in the show notes, but...

N: ...well, I..

R: ...right...

N: ...we might not...

R: ...now...

N: ...we might not get it in the show notes, but I might make it as like, a goodreads ordered list or something and try and link it or whatever. I’ll - I’ll see what I can do, if I...

R: ...Ok...

N: ...can recreate it, ‘cause, yeah it was interesting.

(9:26)

R: Hm. Uh, so if we can figure out a list you saw at least ten years ago, we’ll let you know that.

N: [laughs] Yeah, probably...

R: …[laughs] But, as to...

N: ...actually...

R: ...thoughts about the book that we actually read for this.

N: [laughs]

R: Um, so one of the things that I really liked about “Salamandastron” is that, uh, just that [sighs] it - it’s one of the early in the chronological - or - or early in publishing order sense…

N: ...Yeah...

R: ...it is one of the early books that complicates the narrative of “The Abbey is good. The Abbey is right, listen to people at the Abbey.”

N: Oh my gosh.

R: It - um, it introduces this like complexity around authority that the rest of the books in publishing order establish. And like, there's’ always this like - there’s always this element of like, ah like the young person trying to like figure out their own way in the world, and like, that’s a thing that I think these books do - just...

N: ...Do very well...

R: ...the entire time. They do that very well.

N: Yeah.

R: Um, I like how we find the sword, because in “Redwall” the sword is missing...

N: ...Yeah...

R: ...and um, then this one um, Sam gets the sword, so that was nice. Um, uh it has like, just [sighs] just really cool friendships, just there’s so much that I like in this book, but thinking on it, I’m realizing that I - I mostly like the bits of it that have echoes that happen more in other books. Like...

N: ...Yeah...

R: ... I like this one so much because it ties together other threads, because I didn’t really remember these hares specifically, but I’m like, “Ah, gotta read ‘The Long Patrol’...

N: [laughs]

R: ...that’ll be great.” like.

N: Yeah.

R: “Really, like all these badgers, gotta read more of that,” like it has that a - like it’s a really, really good one for a highlight, ‘cause it points out a lot of what the series does well, but it’s also not necessarily the best book in the series on an experiential level because it points towards a bunch of stuff that it’s gonna do well, later, um, in terms of the author writing the books.

N: Hmm. Yeah.

R: That’s - that’s kinda how I’m feeling, like especially with like - especially with like, the weird like, linguistic stuff going on with people at the Abbey not understanding any of the birds, like that kind of stuff is going to get handled better later, but first it had to be handled badly so that a different book could help make it better. It’s...

N: ...Yeah, I - see that’s - that’s one of the - I think we had this discussion.

R: We did.

N: I don’t remember if it was in a recording or if it was just...

R: ...It was not.

N: Ok. It was just like, our own whatever, um.

(12:36)

R: Yeah, we were just talking about it with my review.

N: That’s what it was, yeah. So...

R: ...Yeah, it was...

N: ...that’s actually one of those things that I really liked about this series, and that I didn’t - I - I picked up on when I was younger but I didn’t really appreciate the full weight of it when I was younger, because this series differently comes from a viewpoint of, there are prejudices and, uh, preconceived notions that people have, and this - this world made up of strictly nonhuman animals is not exempt from those things. And it sets up those - those - those systematic, systemic uh, - literal creature-based, um, precon - um, like prejudice - prejudices, up immediately. And then - but it - but it - this is - I feel like this is a series - so, ok. I might - let me see if I can’t...

R: ...You went in circles a little…

N: ...contextualize this…

R: ...bit there.

N: Yeah. Let me - let me streamline this. So, there are books and there are series that are written from the perspective and for the people who already know what’s up and already see it as a problem, and it’s cathartic to see them walked through.

R: Mmhmm.

N: That is not this series. This is a series that you walk in, it is built for people who are - I don’t want to say built for, it is - it resonates more, I think, with - or makes more sense with people who either don’t really realize or don’t really pay attention to those - those um, those preconceived notions, those prejudices. Have - they have the privilege to - to not, and they just haven’t bothered.

R: Mmhmm.

N: Or, uh, they’re very young, and they just haven’t picked up on it yet, and it hasn’t been shown to them, which...

R: ...Yeah...

N: ...I think was the category - I hope is the category I fell under, ‘cause this was - this was a series that was incredibly instrumental to me in noticing those like inherent things, even when they weren't - even when I wasn’t really experiencing them. Like, I kind of - I picked up on, in real life, social contexts, this was a series that helped me to pick up on uh, things that people said that came out of prejudices, even if the actual prejudice was not being directed at anyone currently in the moment.

R: Yeah.

N: This was a series that helped me to go, “Oh, people are doing that in real life, and here’s where that's coming from,” and identify it, um, in a way that like, I wouldn’t have had context for otherwise, because I would never face those discriminations myself and also partly too, I think because of who I am, and because of how I tend to deal with people, uh, a lot of times I find out later that people who are a problem don’t say things around me about other people, that would be a problem, because they don’t want my reaction.

(15:54)

N: Uh, and that’s a thing about me, like people don’t like making me upset and angry, and they - and - and people, I think, tend to know that I will get angry on someone else’s behalf, and I will defend that person and so especially when I was younger, um, people just didn’t make comments to me. Like, I - I’m never that person where someone’s like, “Eh? Eh? We’re all racist here right?” like I don’t get those comments, um, and so as a kid, this - this book really helped me kinda to see, like, “Ok, even if that’s not the conversation, and even if no one is here to be prejudiced against, these people still have these views, and here’s how they say these statements in other ways,” And it was...

R: ...So…

N: ...incredibly formative to me...

R: ...to summarize...

N: … for me to kind of pick that apart...

R: ...this...

N: ...So, to summarize...

R: ...To summarize…

N: ...summarize, this is a book written to highlight how prejudice shows up, even when it’s not a microaggression and it’s not a direct aggressive, targeted thing.

R: So this series taught you about - taught you about dog whistling.

N: Yes. I couldn’t...

R: ...Got it...

N: ...remember the name for that...

R: [laughs]

N: ...at all, to save my life. [laughs]

R: That - that’s what that is, uh.

N: That’s what that is, yeah. This series taught me how to recognize it, taught me what it looked like, and it gave me context for ways that it could show up - it was really - it was really interesting and it really helped, um.

R: Mmhmm.

N: And, if this series had come out the gate with, uh, like, just full blown, “This is a thing, and you’re the problem,” then those conversations and those moments and those things that are set up early in those books and then called out later, would never have happened...

R: ...Yeah...

N: ...and it would not have - it would not have been - it would not have been informative. I - I - it’s really - it’s really a series that explores, um - it explores pre - prejudice. It explores um, uh poverty.

R: Mmhmm.

N: And it explores systemic pov - poverty in a weird way, ‘cause they’re animals, they don’t really have a system. But they do, but they don’t, but they do, but they don’t. It’s - that one is….

R: ...It - it explores...

N: ...funky...

R: ...systemic poverty in a situation where literally everyone is able to forage.

N: Yeah...

R: ...So…

N: ...yeah, like...

R: ...um...

N: ...what? How...

R: ...It’s like...

N: ...are you poor? How are you missing food, you can go get it, like. Um, but...

R: ...Yeah, like it...

N: ...it still does.

R: Sure, and like it’s not that simple because not everyone happens to be in a food-rich area in the forest, and like...

N: ….Right...

R: ...you know...

N: ...Right...

R: ...there’s a difference between the amount of food that they have at the Abbey, where they’re able to have industry that improves their food every day, and that’s why there’s so many descriptions of like, feasts, and good food and stuff. And…

N: ...Yeah...

R: ...then you have - and then you have the woodland creatures that are foraging every day or every other day, and worried about what they have to stock up for winter. Like...

N: ...Right...

R: ...there’s a lot of - as the series goes on, there end up being a lot of like, “We had to stock up for the winter,” or “We weren’t able to,” or, situations...

N: ...Yeah...

R: ...framed around that.

(19:06)

N: Yeah.

R: Uh.

N: And like...

R: ...Yeah…

N: ...there’s a lot of - in the early books, there’s a lot of, “Oh, these creatures are vermin, and these creatures are bad, and these creatures will attack you, and these creatures will take your food, and these creatures will hurt you, and then you get a book from those creature’s perspective later, and you find out that they are starving, and that they are kicked out of their homes, and that they are are in pain and hungry, because of the creatures who are saying all these things about them, and have all the food, and hoard all the food, don’t share, and don’t care, because...

R: ...Yeah...

N: ...they decided that these other creatures are bad, and - and - and then you have this - later - in these later books you have this exploration of, “Ok, well what if we didn’t treat people like this, and provided for everybody,” and - and then they have these happier outcomes, and - but it’s - but - and I think part of what this series does so well, is it makes you as a reader, no matter the order that you read it in, it makes you really feel the weight of, like these really deep, like generationally entrenched prejudices.

R: Mmhmm.

N: Um, because these books are not two - or a year apart or whatever. They are - ah, there’s - I don’t - I think there’s like maybe two books that have like, they feel like to - like total, I think there’s like two books that feel like they’re within a generation of each other, but everybody else is like, “Oh it’s been like this the - the - the character from the canonical book before is long dead, or has- or died last year, or is my great grandpa, or is kinda just living in - as - as a - as a - in, uh - as an elderly animal...

R: ...Mmhmm...

N: ...and in...

R: ...it’s a little trickier in terms of the timeframe when they’re talking about seasons...

N: ...Yeah...

R: ...but...

N: [laughs]

R: ...in...

N: ...Yeah...

R: ...terms of...

N: ...But it - but it makes it feel...

R: … in terms of...

N: ...like it’s been...

R: ...the maturity...

N: ...forever.

R: Yeah, and in terms of maturity, um, a season of maturity is about equivalent to a year for humans...

N: ...Yeah...

R: ...broadly speaking. Um.

N: Eh, ish. Yeah.

R: It - it’s close enough that like seasons is the best way for them to talk about...

N: ...Yeah...

R: ...their time frame and life spans, and things, just like “years” works for us, um. So, like, you know like a forty season animal, like they're old.

N: [laughs]

R: Um, but in all...

N: ...Yeah...

R: ...also - it, like...

N: ...and they’re probably not...

R: ...I don’t know…

N: ...forty, they’re probably more like sixty.

R: Oh yeah, sixty seasons, yeah. But, I mean, maybe. Like it spans - like this was definitely the first series I’ve ever read that spanned generations.

N: Mmmm.

R: Um, and really tries to tell the story of a place, and I know probably part of why that it feels unusual for me is because I’m American, and like, you know, there was thing I read recently that was like, “Oh yeah that’s totally it,” where America’s creepy ‘cause it’s big and Europe is creepy because it’s old...

N: [laughs]

R: ...and [laughs]

N: Yeah! [laughs]. Yeah. I love...

R: ...Uh, and I...

N: ...I love the differential in those kind[s] of things.

(22:15)

R: Yeah, and so just like, having a series about a place that’s just like, been there for like a super long time, I’m like - yeah, America has been there for a long time, but in terms of a continuity of a very specific civilization being in a place, that is not my cultural experience.

N: Yeah.

R: Um, of like one civilization being in one place for a very long time.

N: Yeah.

R: Um, because, uh colonialism sucks. But anyway, so since this was - this was a British writer, um, like, it has that weight of like, “This village, this abbey, this settlement in the mountains has been here for like a super long time,” and...

N: ...Mmhmm...

R: ...this was like the first series I’ve ever read that really gave me, like a sense of that which I hadn’t gotten from anywhere else.

N: Yeah, and it’s funny because the characters definitely feel the sense of that, no matter which book you start with.

R: Yep

N: But you as a - as a reader really only start feeling it after you’ve read like, two or three books, or even three or four books, where you’re just like, “Oh yeah, it’s still there. It will always...

R: ...Mhmm...

N: ...be there,” like.

R: Yeah.

N: Yeah, it - it’s - it is kinda wild as an American to actually get that tapped, and you’re like, “Ooh, hm, interesting.

R: This is a new feeling. Yeah, so [sighs].

N: Um, so there’s like - I think also something that this series - I mean it definitely pulls on like European, Northern European, Scandanavian, stereotypes in general.

R: Mmhmm.

N: Um, pulls on Scottish stereotypes, it pulls on like some various other things, and it’s - it’s - it is also...

R: ...It definitely pulls on ones we’re not going to be able to comment on specifically, because we are not...

N: ...Right...

R: ...we’re not from the UK...

N: ...that’s what I was gonna say, is - is it definitely pulls on those, but also - and I don’t know if someone reading this from Europe would have a - probably would have different experience with it, but as an American, it pulls on stereotypes that are vaguely - even as a kid I’m like, kinda vaguely aware exist, but they - they aren’t ones that I have specific preconceived notions on, and so reading this book for me, and reading this series for me, especially as a - as a middle schooler, um, it - it really - it really feels like, “Oh ok, these characters are real people, because everybody is different enough that they all feel real, in a tangible way,” um, but also then I grew up and find out like, oh, I find out more about other cultures, and I hear about things other people say, and I can kinda go, “Oh, ok. I see where he pulled this from. I see what this is referencing. I see like -” and it - it’s - it - it was funny reading this book as an adult ‘cause, I read these books a lot as a kid, um, but I haven’t gone through and read this series in a very long time, and so, it was funny rereading “Salamandastron” as an adult, and kind of recognizing more of those things and going, “Ohhhh, these are all references.”

(25:48)

R: Right, instead of...

N: ...That was wild.

R: Instead of just recognizing a couple of them, realizing...

N: ...Yeah...

R: ...that every single one was something.

N: Yeah, ‘cause if you had - if you had asked me like, about “Salamandastron” specifically, like if you had asked me in middle school, like, “What is - like the eagles are referencing something, what are they referencing?” I would have been able to tell you Scotland, but it is a completely different experience to read this book again as an adult, and read “Laird MacPhearsome [should be Mactalon]”.

R: [laughs]

N: And crack up laughing for like, twelve hours afterwards, because this is a specific bird, with Scottish accents, almost - almost in the way it’s written.

R: Mmhmm.

N: Like it’s definitely meant to be read that way.

R: Designed to invoke that with that, we’ve got Wild King MacPhearsome. Yes.

N: Yeah, but you have - you have - so Laird MacPhearsome...

R: ...No, Laird - Laird...

N: ...Laird - no, hold on...

R: ...Laid Mactalon...

N: ...Oh I’m sorry, Laird Mactalon, so you...

R: ...Yes...

N: ...have - you have this - this - it’s very funny to read it as an adult and go, “Oh, Lord who has talons. Oh, [laughs] that name was a pun...

R: [laughs]

N: ...the whole time,” and then you have like - it - and what was the other - what was MacPhearsome’s?

R: Wild King...

N: ...Wild King...

R: ...MacPhearsome.

N: Wild King...

R: ...He’s MacPhearsome...

N: ...MacPhearsome.

R: Yep.

N: Yeah, it’s - it’s literally the wild king eagle who is fierce...

R: ...But then also...

N: ...that’s the joke. But it...

R: ...Also...

N: ...it - it’s funny because like, it’s a bird joke also? Which like, when I was a kid, it was just a name, but I had - but I - I had to have more experience with like, different ways of pronouncing things in different cultures, and now that I’ve kind of had those like auditory experiences, reading these names, now I go, “Oh, those are jokes too!” like.

R: So, I...

N: ...It’s just...

R: ...I got...

N: ...it’s funny, but it - it’s like - it’s like, those are things that like, I’m glad we reread this book, ‘cause as a kid, like, I - I wouldn’t have put that…

R: ...So...Mctalon

N: ...together.

R: I definitely got Mactalon the first time, ‘cause you know...

N: ...Oh yeah, but Mactalon is...

R: …”talon”, got that...

N: ...yeah...

R: ...sure...

N: ...but that’s the only one.

R: But...

N: ...But all of them...

R: ...I do wanna...

N: ...all of them...

R: ...pause...

N: ...are jokes, every name...

R: ...I don’t wanna…

N: ...is a joke.

R: Yeah, all the names, uh, we have King Glagweb, the Toad...

N: ...Yeah [laughs] yeah.

R: We have Urthwyte, the white badger.

N: Yeah, literally - literally white earth user, yeah, and they dig.

R: Yeah.

N: Yep, it - it’s just...

R: ...I...

N: ...it’s so funny.

R: Also, Loambud, now I know what “loam” is...

N: ...Yeah...

R: ...like, just...

N: ...yeah...

R: ...all of these just like, viscerally earthy names, um...

N: [laughs] ...discreetly...

R: ...really fun...

N: ...earthy names are so good.

R: Yeah. Ashnin the squirrel.

N: Yeah.

R: Like, uh, like an ash tree. Like, ah! So good.

N: [laughs]

R: Um.

N: It - it’s just - it’s so funny ‘cause just context[ually] - there’s so many context things that I didn’t have when I was ten or twelve, but at twenty-eight I do.

R: Right.

N: And it - yeah, I - I really - when I was a kid, I definitely was like, “Oh okay, these are definitely like a lot of names right?” And now as an adult, I’m like, “Oh no, every single name is a joke or a reference, or pun or,” like...

R: ...Or at the very least...

N: ...as a kid I didn’t understand...

R: ...thematic...

N: ...how he came up with all of the names. Now as an adult...

R: ...Mmhmm...

N: ...I’m like, “Ohhhhh, I get it.”

R: Yeah. [sighs] I didn’t really have...

N: ...It’s a lot...

R: ...really anything else for this. Just, ah! It’s a good series. If you liked “Salamandastron” you might like more of these, um.

N: Yeah.

R: Tell us what you think. Com - this is for patrons only so, comment on the post on Patreon. Uh.

N: Tag us on Twitter.

R: Yeah.

N: That too.

R: Tag us on Twitter.

N: Yeah.

R: Talk to us.

N: It’s - it’s good. And if you would like - if you would - I’m gonna try and reconstruct that reading order, or something very close and I’ll - I’ll go ahead and post it, ‘cause…

R: ...Yeah...

N: ...it’s - it was really something and I - I think - I think now that I own, I don’t think I own all of them, but I own a lot of them at this point.

R: MMmm.

N: Uh, I’m gonna actually go through my shelf and see if I can’t put them physically in an order.

R: Yeah. So, thank you so much for joining us, Patrons. Hope you enjoyed this, uh, epilogue, and you’ll have your regularly scheduled episode next week, and uh, thank you so much for joining us.