This transcript is for a free-form discussion which may contain spoilers for all the works discussed in the main episode(s) related to this Epilogue.

N: HI, I’m Nicole.

R: And I’m Robin, and this is the epilogue for “Long Way Down” by Jason Reynolds. Thinking through what stuck with me, um, because it’s - it’s been a minute since we recorded the episode for this.

N: Yeah.

R: As it usually is. Um, and I think that the two biggest things are desperately trying to remember that it's just “Long Way Down”.

N: [laughs]

R: There’s no articles, there’s no “a”, “an”, “the”, whatever. Three words. [laughs]

N: My - my - my brain wants to autofill a “the”, every single time I’ve had to label anything for this, or put in a - title for anything for this, I...

R: ...For me it’s “a”. I keep wanting to call it...

N: I like that we have different...

R: ...Yeah, I keep wanting...

N: ...ones, that’s actually...

R: ...to call it “A Long Way...

N: ...really great...

R: ...Down”.

N: [laughs]

R: And, nope. It’s not...

N: ...See “The Long Way Down” it’s so final. But “Long Way Down” feels so nebulous.

R: Fits the book better.

N: It does fit the book better.

R: Yeah the title it has fits better than either of the alternate versions that either - that we keep getting stuck on, but anyway. Uh, so, trying to remember that the title really is just three words, and then also, uh, that just the - the image of um, Dani’s death and reappearance I think. Those are like the two biggest things.

N: Yeah.

R: Um, probably at least part of that is that we’re related to somebody who goes by “Danni”, um, that’s - that’s definitely...

N: ...That makes sense...

R: ...at least a piece of it. Um, but the - the imagery is really strong around her in particular, uh, in the book, and partly because we get, I think the most description of that moment over any other.

N: I think for me the two images I keep getting about this book and that really stuck with me about this book is the picture of the - of him in his bed looking across the room and just seeing his brother’s stuff.

R: Yeah [sad tone].

N: There’s...

R: ...Yup...

N: ...that. Hi Haku. And then the image of - which this is not an actual image from the book, it’s I think what my brain has - actually, well I know why this image is in my head, ah, because we’re - I’m doing artwork and this is the image I have chosen for the artwork, uh a picture of an elevator and you’re looking down, uh, on it. It hasn’t opened yet, like you’re not inside it yet, but like you’re looking like you’re floating on the ceiling...

R: ...Uh huh...

N: ...like you’re dead and a ghost. And [laughs] and you’re looking down at - as though you’re watching and waiting for someone to get in the elevator and uh, that’s the angle that I have chosen for uh, the - the artwork for this that I’m working on. I think I’m actually done, I’m not gonna actually - it’s not very detailed, but…

R: ...Yeah...

N: ...I’m intentionally making it not very detailed. Uh, but that picture and just the picture of the kid in his bed staring at his dead brother’s things that he can’t - will never get put away, that he can’t touch and nobody else is gonna mess with.

(3:26)

R: Yeah.

N: I think that’s what stuck with me. Got a bit more, but. Um, is anything about this book that you feel differently about now?

R: Um, well.

N: ‘Cause we kinda talked a lot about the “Ghost of Christmas Past” aspect...

R: ...Right...

N: ...in the episode. I feel like that’s really something that we - we really touched on it when we did the episode, but I almost wanna say that that’s the piece from our discussion that...

R: ...Mmhmm...

N: ...is kinda stuck in my head. That’s kinda wild right, because in - in the story of - of Ebeneezer Scrooge he - he has to...

R: ...Right...

N: ...stop doing something, right? But here the ghosts are to keep him from doing something, or to tell him to do something, like it’s a future thing instead of a - it’s - it’s a - it’s a - a decision to do a behavior, not to stop...

R: ...Yeah...

N: ...or continue.

R: Uh.

N: It’s kind of a - it’s - it’s a different feel but it - it has the - it has the same feeling of like the ghost trying to show him what could be and what was and what is.

R: I think the biggest thing I would say is that, like, reflecting on that, that I think referencing such a famous other work that also has ghosts, I think distracts a little bit from how, just moving and poignant this is standing on its own. No I - I don’t think we’re wrong to reference it.

N: Well, I - I don’t - I’m not trying…

R: ...Mmhmm…

N: ...to compare the two. I don’t - I’m not trying to compare the two, and it’s not...

R: ...No…

N: ...in my head at least, it’s not just another famous thing with ghosts. They are very similar concept[s] with the ghosts.

R: [laughs]

N: Like the ghosts are a similar feel and there are not very many other things...

R: This is true.

N: ...famous or otherwise that treat ghosts the same way. It’s - it’s kind a - almost a unique way of using the mem- those...

R: ...Yeah...

N: ...memories that those ghosts are carrying. And I’m - I’m not mentioning uh - I’m not mentioning, uh, Ebeneezer Scrooge to distract from this book, but I want to - I think - I think it’s - it’s - it’s very hard to describe how much those ghosts and those memories are important to the feel of the story, uh, especially if somebody hasn’t read the book and they’re - they’re kinda listening to this, like I want - I want people to have an idea of how important that aspect is.

R: I mean yeah, because...

N: ‘Cause it really is.

R: Sure.

N: And I don’t have another touchstone for it essentially. I have no other way to...

R: That makes sense. To me that other book is a time travel book that uses ghosts and I know that isn’t quite right, but to me that’s how it’s like, [it] sits in my head, so the bringing this in…

(6:34)

N: Oh, I don’t even think of a time - I don’t think of it as...

R: ...Right, so - so...

N: ...time travel book at all...

R: ...to me there’s...

N: ...so...

R: ...some things where I...

N: ...that makes sense...

R: ...would say, “Well it’s like that. It’s not like this, not like this, not like this.”

N: Oh yeah, they’re - they’re not...

R: ...Mmhmm….

N: ...well that’s the thing, is...

R: ...literally just that it’s ghosts...

N: ...that’s the thing - that’s the only crossover they have. That’s it.

R: Yeah.

N: The only crossover is the way the ghosts’ memories are used. But it’s such a wild pretty unique concept that is not just out - like there’s - there’s so many book concepts and so many character concepts and so many things that you see permeated...

R: ...Mmhmm...

N: ...through various genres in fiction. This is not one of them. This is one of those where, sure there are some stories that do it, but except for “Long Way Down” I have never yet seen one that isn’t just...

R: ...This is true...

N: ...referencing...

R: ...Yeah...

N: ...Scrooge. This is the only one, and so - it - it’s not a story concept. It’s not - or I should say a story tool, a character tool. It’s not a character tool that there are a million and everybody does this and everybody knows what it is.

R: [I’d] not be surprised.

N: It’s not a thing. It’s just, this one story did it and it got really famous and now “Long Way Down” has taken the same idea and tells a different story with different consequences and speaks to the future instead of to the past, and it’s - it’s - I don’t like Ebeneezer Scrooge. I don’t care about that story. I do care about...

R: ...Yeah...

N: ...the way “Long Way Down” did this. I think it’s - I just don’t have another - I don’t have another reference point for that, that type of characterization, that’s not that thing. Um, but it’s...

R: ...Yeah...

N: ...it’s wonderful [laughs]. It’s very good.

R: So I asked what is in here, yeah, um, I - I still like the way all the different ghosts feel different, um, thinking back on how - yeah, and thinking...

N: ...it all feels super unique...

R: ...back on how like, time is played with, like both of us - we read this pretty much in one sitting, right? Yeah.

N: Yes.

R: Yeah, for - for...

N: ...entirely in one...

R: ...both of us...

N: ...sitting for me.

R: Um, not at the same time unless due [to a] - weird coincidence, um.

N: Huh.

R: Yeah.

N: I mean I wouldn't...

R: ...but...

N: ...discount it, but.

R: That - I think that made it a better reading experience, especially when for Will, almost all of this took place - this all took place within the same fifteen minutes? Like including - well including the prologue bits, ‘cause he’s like thinking, going up to his room, and… right.

N: Oh yeah, including the prologue, I was gonna say, if you think about how long even the slowest elevator…

R: 90% of the book - well you - with the timestamps we know that like 90% of the book took place in...

N: ...Yeah...

R: ...in like a minute.

(9:43)

N: Yeah.

R: Minute and a half, something like that. Um, and even including the brief prologue, you’re still talking - you have to be talking less than twenty minutes for this entire thing, almost all of which is compressed into this like, one or two minutes and I think that reading it in one sitting, if you can, is definitely the way to go because then you get like that um, that tension and that immersion, and like it felt like I was just in this and there was nothing else in the world. And like that’s a common feeling when reading a book, at least...

N: ...Yeah...

R: ...for me, but because of the time frame I think that really helped this. It helped my experience of it, and if you can, I would recommend...

N: ...I - I will also say...

R: ...reading it that way...

N: ...for anybody who hears that and - and their immediate thought is, “Oh no, I can’t normally read books in one sitting,” this one...

R: ...Yeah, it...

N: ...you probably can. [laughs] Uh, this is a book of poetry and it is very minimalist poetry, and it’s very - it’s - it’s very, um...

R: ...It’s prose poetry but it’s not dense.

N: Yes. And - and a lot of the poetry aspect comes from the actual visualization and the images created by the actual words on the page. So, this is not a - this is not blocks of lines...

R: ...Mmhmm...

N: ...of rhyming poetry. This is visual art that just happens to be created by words, and so it’s very minimalist. There are, I think - I don’t remember what the lowest number of words on a page was, but I would bet it...

R: ...Teah...

N: ...was less than ten. At least once.

R: Yeah, that sounds right.

N: Uh, [clears throat] I don’t think - I don’t think any page got up to even like 50 individual words.

R: I’m now...

N: ...At all...

R: ...tempted to check but I don’t…

N: ...It’s...

R: ...have the time right now...

N: [laughs] I don’t have a - I turned it back in to the library, I don’t have it. I can’t check it.

R: My copy’s in the next room.

N: Um.

R: But.

N: [laughs] But yeah, it’s - I - I would say that most people, if you sat for an hour you could finish this book.

R: Hour - hour and a half. ‘Cause I know how long…

N: ...I would argue…

R: ...I know how long it took me.

N: Hour and a half?

R: So like, hour…

N: ...Ok...

R: ...hour and a half. Or like, I don’t know how good the audio book is, because that’s not how I consumed this text, but I...

N: ...I would - if you have the option to - if you have the option to partake in a physical copy instead of an audio copy, I would recommend that only because...

R: ...Ebook...

N: ...or - or...

R: ...or both yeah...

N: ...do both. Have the - have the audio version. Or - or just listen to it, and then like find a visual and flip through the pages if you have that option.

(12:52)

Find a - find a way of seeing the pictures created because those visuals are so good and so intentional and so much a part of the experience...

R: ...Mmhm...

N: ...it is not the same story if you are not forced to...

R: ...I mentioned...

N: ...read at the pace...

R: ...I mentioned...

N: ...that the book gives it to you, and - and I don’t know that...

R: ...But there are..

N: ...an audio book would do...

R: ...there are ways ...

N: ...that because they...

R: ...to read poems that convey the sense of that even if it is not literally the image and I feel like this book would lend itself to that pretty well.

N: There are. There are but I wouldn't assume that an audio book copy was done that way. I would not assume...

R: ...Hey, if you uh...

N: [clears throat] Sorry, I would not assume that someone who is just paid to read an audiobook, necessarily...

R: ...Oh no, audio books have gotten really good. They’re a whole like - no they're like...

N: ...Oh really?

R: No, audiobooks are much...

N: ...Oh ok...

R: ...better. [long pause] Yeah, they’re - they're really good now. Um.

N: Ok.

R: Yeah, it’s not the way I prefer to consume books but no, audi - audiobooks are...

N: ...Yeah...

R: ...performances...

N: ...it’s just they - it’s just wild because sometimes - ok - ok good. ‘Cause I just know that sometimes that certain pages are dense text and you’re supposed to read them quickly and some pages literally have like a word at the top, a word in the middle and then a word in the bottom and it takes - the time it takes for your eyes to travel and to find the next word, gives it the pacing that it - it’s intended. It’s just - it’s just...

R: ...Mmhmm...

N: ...it’s just really - it’s a piece of art instead of like - a piece of visual art, not just a piece of word art. It’s both.

R: Yeah, audiobooks have gotten to the point where people will recommend different audiobooks based on who - what performer narrated it. That’s where we are.

N: So in that case, what we need to do is find a good narrator and recommend that version for our audience. I don’t know what that would be.

R: We’re not in the audiobook recommendation game, sorry. Uh.

N: We’re not. I wonder if we could harness our twitter power to find out?

R: If you read an audiobook, and you liked it, uh, we will update this post with the link whenever we get that. At... whatever point. Um.

N: Yeah. Yes, if - if anybody reads this book and has a rec - or has an audio version and has...

R: ...Yeah...

N: ...a recommendation, please email us, tweet us, we wanna know. We would love to…

R: ...Yeah...

N: ...have something to recommend, because neither of us listens to our books, ever.

R: ‘Cause I don’t want to give the impression that an option that is inaccessible to someone is the only good way to consume this book, ‘cause I - yeah.

N: Oh no, well that’s - that’s the thing is that - that’s why I’m saying, “If you read physical books, if you can read this one, if you choose to read books sometimes instead of listening,” this is one that it is worth reading. It is worth looking at and it - taking in the visuals. Not that you can’t listen to an audiobook, but if you have the option of a physical book, this is the recommended - this is the one to bother to put in that - that effort.

(16:19)

R: Yeah.

N: Just go with that.

R: Back to things in the book and not just how they’re shaped, um, I [sighs] trying to think. Uh, the - the way the characters are all related to each other and like the interconnections were just really good and I like - I know we had said this, but I like the way rules as a mantra kind of holds things together. It gives this nice consistency and there’s enough space for it to establish the structure, establish this litany and then play with it based on which bit of the rules are said again and when. Um, in conjunction with...

N: ...Yeah...

R: ...which bits...

N: ...yeah...

R: ...of the story.

N: Yeah the timing of how the rules are - are in the story is - is very intentional and very well - well placed. I - I - so here’s a thought that I had at one point that I had kinda forgotten about until this moment. Uh, when we were initially reading it and we got to the end, and we were talking about the rules in our episode, I had wondered kind of if there were other rules that just didn’t pertain to murder? Like a neighborhood that this set of codified - codified rule sets for this thing, there have to be others, right? I just want more of that world, I guess..

R: ...Yeah...

N: ...more of like, what other strictures do they have to - what other things exist in the neighborhood and if - if it doesn’t, if that’s the only one that’s fine. But until I hear from the author somehow that this is or isn’t - that there is or isn’t more to this like, that’s the thing that - that I kinda caught myself wondering.

R: Yeah. I think if this were - and like I understand that there are ghosts in it so there is a supernatural element to these book - this this book, but I think I would be...

N: ...Yeah, well...

R: ...more comfortable...

N: ...yeah...

R: ...speculating about that if the setting were more removed from reality, beca[use] - yeah.

N: Well that's the thing, where I don’t know. I’m not assuming there are, I just - it’s like if there are I want to know more of them. Like, I’m...

R: ...Yeah...

N: ...just interested if...

R: ...Yeah...

N: ...I guess.

R: No, if anytime I see like a set of lists of things, I’m like, “Are there more things on this list? This list looks interesting,” so no I absolutely, I...

N: ...Yeah, exactly, I...

R: ...get that impulse.

N: It’s that...

R: ...Yes...

N: ...it’s that impulse.

R: Um, I - for Will’s sake I don’t want this neighborhood to need more rules. [laughs] I think [that] is a little bit of my apprehension.

N: I mean. No, [laughs] no.

R: Yeah.

N: But, without [laughs]...

R: [laughs]

N: ...factoring into that, I personally would love more...

R: ...Yeah...

N: ...rules [laughs].

R: So...

N: I guess.

(19:33)

R: Since, hopefully people would have um, I’m trying to think about how to address the ending and whether we want to talk about it at all here. Um, ok. Um, the ending is really good and it feels appropriate to the story...

N: ...I don’t think so…

R: ...is what I would say.

N: Only, only be - well - only because, yeah. Yes. Uh, we - as much as this is a - a spoiler allowed thing, right now, uh...

R: ...Yeah…

N: ...I - I don’t want to give away the ending because...

R: ...So, we...

N: …it’s - it’s wonderful...

R: ...we...

N: ...and I - I don’t wanna - I don’t wanna ruin anybody’s chances of ...

R: ...Yeah...

N: ...experiencing it...

R: ...we’re both very...

N: ...themselves...

R: ...pleased with it.

N: Yeah. It’s very nice, very solid.

R: Um, the thing about how we discussed it that I think I’m still most excited about is thematically tying together one of our topics with a topic from our last series, um, The Inheritance Trilogy, because we had um, with those books for one of them we had cycle of violence; colonialism edition, and then for this one we had...

N: ...True...

R: ...cycle of violence; revenge edition and even though...

N: [sighs] ...Yes...

R: ...what put both - what determines our book order is um, complicated. We - we balance a bunch of things.

N: A lot of things.

R: Yeah.

N: We have whole metric.

R: We have a bunch of heuristics...

N: ...Yeah...

R: ...what goes where and you know, constrained by when we’re able to get a hold of each book mutually, um, which is a lot of...

N: ...Yes...

R: ...what shaped this episode...

N: ...That’s a big piece...

R: ...coming out when it is, is that we had trouble getting the book and so it happened now instead of happening, um, a couple of months ago when originally intended for it to come out, and...

N: Yeah, just - just for context, anyone listening to this in the future, um, we had initially planned to read this in very early 2020, and then I had trouble [meows] getting a hold of it at first [meows in background]. Hi. [meows]. Yeah? [meows]. Uh, I had trouble getting a hold of it first and then I finally got it, and then everybody got shut in their houses.

R: Yeah.

(22:17)

N: And so we - we kinda said, “Ok, well, uh, we finally got me the book, which took a bit, so let’s just record it right now, so that I can give it back to the library...

R: ...Yeah...

N: ...before it becomes a problem,” since everything was...

R: ...Yeah...

N: ...was closed. Uh, it was kinda wild, so we had initially planned actually to have this out earlier in the year, and then other things happened and we had - I had problems getting it.

R: Yeah, I think we had originally planned for this to be our May episode and here we are in July.

N: That sounds about right.

R: Yep.

N: Yeah.

R: Yep, but...

N: ...Yeah...

R: ...as I was saying with connecting it to The Inheritance Trilogy, that gives us the opportunity to um, talk about two different kinds of cycles of violence that play out on like very different scales and, um, I’m pretty pleased with how we were able to - to do that and I hope that it comes across well because by the time we planned - by the time we talked about The Inheritance Trilogy, we knew we were gonna talk about “Long Way Down” as well, and...

N: ...Mmhmm...

R: ...I don’t remember which of them we recorded first, but whenever we went to record...

N: ...Uh, “Long Way Down”...

R: ...Ok, yeah, so we recorded “Long Way Down” first and then when we went to discuss The Inheritance Trilogy, um, well we got to that third book, we were like, “Hey, we should call it this because when we release them, it’s going to be placed in this juxtaposition and I think it’ll work well.” So.

N: Mmmhmm.

R: Let us know if you think it did, um, cycle of violence is such, like, a big topic, and there’s so many kinds of it that I...

N: ...We will - we will probably revisit that theme, I mean I would say for sure, thinking about our - our - our book list...

R: ...We’ll have opportunities…

N: ...uh. We - we in the next year and a half....

R: ...Yep...

N: ...we will have more, that will happen. Um, not gonna say when but that’s definitely gonna be a thing. Uh, now with the caveat that if we did decide to talk about not-that when we actually get to those books, please don’t hold us...

R: ...It’s why we’re being coy...

N: ...to this...

R: ...and not saying which books. Um [laughs].

N: Yes. Yes, ‘cause we - we might read them or reread them and realize that there is something else that’s a little bit more important, or a little bit more important to the characters, but no promises.

(25:02)

N: So. Oh, our senior - our junior assistant editor would like you all to know that she personally thinks that we should do that topic. This is a strongly held...

R: [laughs]

N: ...opinion of hers. I hope her meow...

R: ...Mmmhmm...

N: ...got picked up by my mic [laughs]. Oh no, [laughs] she just meowed very loudly.

R: It did not, well it didn’t - it didn’t - it didn’t make it through Discord, I don’t know if it’ll make it, uh, onto your recording, but...

N: ...Yeah, we’ll find out.

R: Looking back through - through our - our topics, I - I understand that the book wasn’t focused on Will’s mom, but I wish that...

N: ...Yeah, yes? But?

R: ...and I’m glad we talked about her, no regrets about that, I just wish she had been more in the book...

N: … Uh huh, mhmm...

R: ...to say more about...

N: ...Hmm...

R: ...because there - there’s um - Will is a, like, is part of this chain, this cycle, but he wasn’t even - and I know that part of the point is that he wasn’t even alive for a lot of the violence that happened that is leading to this moment, but the mom was...

N: ...Right...

R: ...and was present for more of these and I think there’s an element where this is a ghost story and so he found out about all these things from the ghosts, but his - his mom talking to him, might have been able to tell him much of this, if they were able to speak about it.

N: I feel like that was kinda the point though.

R: Yeah.

N: I don’t - I don’t think it would have had - I’m not saying it wouldn’t have had the same impact from a live person, I’m saying I don’t think it would have been the same book.

R: Oh sure, it - it would have been a very different book, um, I just would someday like to also get to read the equivalent of that book should someone write it. Um. I think that...

N: ...Gotcha...

R: ...and if that book already exists, uh, email us. Tell us the title and I will - I will go read that [laughs]. But.

N: Yeah. That would be - I feel like that - I - I don’t want to generalize, but I have a strong suspicion that that book…

R: ...Yeah...

N: ...exists in a lot of forms, because part of - so one of our rules on this podcast, as anyone who listens to our episodes would know from our intro, is no real people stories, and that includes historical fiction. I would argue that the person who was there tells the story to the child who was not particularly about the type of violence and the type of stories told in this...

R: ...Mmmhmm...

N: … in this poem, in this book, is everywhere. There’s a lot of them. There’s a lot of those. There’s some told - there are those stories told by people...

R: ...Mmhmm...

N: ...who have a right to tell them. There are those stories told in a very, very white washed, very...

R: ...voyeuristic?

N: ...uh, men writing stories because they want to? [laughs]

(28:37)

N: Depending on the author there’s - but there’s also those stories...

R: ...Yeah...

N: ...coming from people who lived it, or people who are writing fiction about their own - their own neighborhoods or their own homes, and - I don’t know. I feel like that - I feel like that story exists everywhere. I feel like the fact that he can get that information as close to first hand as possible, even while being alive after those deaths happened, or too young to have - really have had first hand experience...

R: ...Mmhmm...

N: ...I think [that] is very important. Because it’s not the same thing. It’s not the same story that is told in a lot...

R: ...Yeah...

N: ...of different places.

R: I - I - I definitely...

N: ...I don’t know. That - that book - that book that you’re - that you want definitely exists, and I...

R: ...I...

N: ...I am sure...

R: ...I definitely...

N: ...we can find that...

R: ...mean to say…

N: ...for you [laughs]...

R: ... I’m sure someone has written that, and if you know where that is please let me know so I can read it. I definitely don’t mean to imply…

N: ...Yeah, we’ll find it...

R: ...that no one had thought of this before. No, no. [laughs]. No.

N: Oh no.

R: No.

N: That’s not what I’m saying. I’m just saying like, if you want to read that book...

R: ...Yeah...

N: ...we’ll find it. [laughs] Like, it’s there.

R: I mean the also interesting book would be uh, uh kid goes to tell his mom that all the ghosts talked to him on the elevator but I know that kind of book has already happened [laughs].

N: Yeah, that kind of book has definitely already happened. Alright, I - I think that’s most of my thoughts, on this one.

R: Yep. Just, [sighs] leave you with the thought that - that the ending is really good. It feels appropriate to the rest of the text and I just - it works really really well. I - I’m still kind of floored that all of this stuff in the story happened in like a minute or two. Um, there’s, you know, partly because we have to read so much, but there’s not a ton...

N: ...Yeah...

R: ...said but there’s a lot described, and it’s poetry, and all of that combines to make it feel like an endless moment while reading, but then I get to the end, and I’m like, “Yeah, that could’a happened that fast, maybe.” There’s definitely ghost spookiness involved.

N: [laughs] Yeah.

R: So.

N: I love - I - well...

R: ...Mhmm...

N: ...one final thought that I have on this book, something I really enjoyed and I don't - I do not remember what my uh, non traumatic favorite thing was, but I really enjoyed how this book captured that sense of when you’re thinking through something in a moment, especially when it’s a very critical decision and it feels like it is taking forever to get through your head…

R: ...Mmhmm..

N: ...and come to a conclusion. This book nails that thought, that feel of those thoughts.

R: Like it’s kind of...

N: ...In a very - a very tactile, visceral way.

R: Like it’s kinda skittering but stuck at the same time?

N: Yes.

R: Yeah.

N: And it takes forever [laughs], all of those all at once and I would recommend this book on that alone.

R: Well, thank you for joining us for the epilogue for “Long Way Down”. Uh, you’ll get your next episode in a week, and your next epilogue in a fortnight. Yes? No? Maybe? Yes.

N: Uh, I don’t remember. Do we have a series next...

R: ...Nope we just came off...

N: ...or a highlight?

R: ...a series so a highlight is next. Yes, you’ll get your next epilogue in a fortnight.

N: Highlight, so yes. Epilogue in two weeks. [laughs]