The Lightning Thief

Patreon Series A Episode 1


Book 1 of "Percy Jackson and the Olympians" Series by Author

("N" denotes Nicole, "R" denotes Robin, "D" denotes David)

Timestamps are placed at approximately three-minute intervals throughout the transcript.

From the Show Notes...

Hello Patrons and welcome to the first ever Patron-only bonus episode! This month we are discussing "The Lightning Thief", book one of the series "Percy Jackson and the Olympians" by Rick Riordan. Our special guest for this episode (and this series) is David.

This episode was released to everyone for its debut, so please enjoy!

Episode intro and disclaimers (0:00-1:05)

N: Hey everybody, since we are either starting a new series or reading a stand-alone book, I'm jumping in to remind you what the rules are for this podcast. First rule is: no real-people stories. That means that any details from our own lives are merely anecdotal, and we are not reading any books that depict real people as their characters in any way or are based on historical events. Second rule is that we are judging everything off of how the author treats characters and what they put them through. We are not judging the accuracy of the trauma, the accuracy of any actual conditions that may be portrayed, or the authenticity of a character's reaction to that trauma or that particular condition. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. The hosts are not trained professionals, and their opinions come from personal experience, not from professional training. In this episode we discuss fictional depictions of trauma and violence that may not be suitable for all listeners, so please take care of yourselves. Specific content warnings for each episode can be found in the show notes. Events in the media are discussed in approximate order of escalation. This episode contains spoilers.

[Transcript Disclaimer: Content warnings for each section can be found in the collapsible section headers.]

Musical Interlude (1:06-1:12)

Plot Synopsis

D: Hello all you lovely listeners, my name is David and I will give you guys a plot synopsis on “The Lightning Thief” by Rick Riordan. Percy Jackson is a twelve year old demi-god living and going to school in New York City. But on a field trip misfortune befalls him, and for his safety he is sent away to [a] camp for demi-gods and meets monsters, murderers, and criminal animal handlers and dreams about the dark evil force. With twists and turns he goes on adventures and learns about the true friendship with a lightning thrill along the way.

Factions (1:39-2:30)

N: Hi, I’m Nicole.

R: And I’m Robin, and today we have a special guest:

D: I’m David.

R: And we are reading “The Lightning Thief”, book one of the series “Percy Jackson and the Olympians” by Rick Riordan.

N: Uh, David do you want to read our factions?

D: Um, Yeah. [Long Pause] Factions: Percy Jackson, Grover, Annabeth, Chiron, and Luke.

R:Uh, I would also like to mention that he has a mom, and - that Percy has a mom, and a step-dad, and there are other teachers and various greek gods and monsters.

N: Yeah, that’s fair...

D: This is true…

N: We have more factions than just the main characters.

Topic 1: Sally Jackson and partner abuse. Begins at (2:30), CW for physical abuse, emotional abuse, child kicked out of home, financial abuse.

R: Yes. Uh, minor character spotlight: Percy’s mom, Sally Jackson, and the dynamic between her and her abusive husband, Gabe. Uh, David did you want to kick off our first topic underneath this spotlight?

D: Physical, and emotional abuse.

R: Yeah, it’s pretty rough. Um, so…

D: It’s the first time I had to think about that in, like, a kid’s book, it was so…

R: Yeah.

N: Oh yeah.

R: Yep. I mean that’s why we’re talking about these ‘cause like, most of the stuff we read is YA, and - like young adult fiction, and this is in there, ‘cause fictional books are a safe place to process stuff that happens in real life, so. What - so now that you’re thinking about it as a - as a text that has physical and emotional abuse, what do you think about?

D: What do I think about it in the book or as just a subject?

R: Uh, the book…

N: As the examples in the book…

D: The book handled it - the book handled it very, tastefully in my opinion?

R: Well, we’re gonna - the end and our wrap up is when we talk about how tastefully they handled it, but you can say a little bit of that here, but we do have a place for that here in the episode. But, um…

N: Ok - how’s - David, tell us why.

R: Ok yeah, tell us why you think it was tasteful.

N: Yeah.

D: I’m trying to find a good way to word this.

N:That’s fine.

R: And this isn’t going to be only us quizzing you, but we do want to make sure that you

N: ...We wanna make sure...

R: ...are talking since you are the guest.

N: Yeah. I can say, so here’s something that I think that they - that, um, Rick Riordan did very well. Um, to - to what - what you were saying to it being - being tasteful? It - this abuse is definitely in the book? But it does not, it - it at no point does the listener, or the reader I’m sorry, at no point does the reader feel like they are in the situation.

D: Right.

R: Yeah. Like there’s some scenes where he is verbally abusive, we never have scenes where he is physically abusive. We don’t know that that doesn't happen?

D: It’s - at the end it’s implied and thought about by the character, saying “I think he was about to hit her”...

R: That’s right, yeah…

D: and I’m pretty sure he has done it before.

R: Right, yeah - yeah that moment where he realizes.

N: But when you’re - like - like you said this is the first time you’ve had to think about this, but this is not the first time you’ve read this book.

D: It’s - yeah, it’s subconscious in the way I know it’s a thing, I know it’s there but it’s also like I never actually thought how to word it and how to talk about it.


R: Yeah

N: So the way it’s written in the book it’s not in a way that shoves it into your face and makes you feel like it’s happening, it’s just a thing and then you move on with the story.

R: And it’s never ambiguous that he’s bad, but it also doesn’t dwell on the details. But I think um, you had - so you had uh, written down what are - like the subtopics are for this relationship and I think it’s a good one. So you had physical and emotional abuse in general, specifically he spends all her money and hits her, and he constantly threatens to kick Percy out.

D: He spends the money on gambling and then is complaining when she’s not working because he wants more money on gambling, and by the signs of their house he’s not good at gambling. [laughs] Sorry that was a joke in poor taste.

N: I mean, to be fair the - the pretty normal - normal thing about gambling is that no is really good at it other than the person running the - the gambling area.

D: True, um, he threatens to kick Percy out a lot, to the point where when he’s is not home everything that has Percy involved in the house is either removed or hidden away. Like Percy’s bedroom for example...

R: ...Oh yeah...

D: ...he uses it as an office when Percy’s not home which is almost all the time, and, this is gonna be kind of weird, um, this is just something I find weird on the book that some people complain with but I do understand the point of, is having Gabe be there to hide Percy when Percy’s almost never around Gabe because he’s abusive. And - but it also makes a point to explain that in a very good way saying that he is so repellant to monsters that even after three weeks away, Percy’s scent has not lingered at all.

R: So probably helps him for at least part of the school year and if he came back for holidays like it will re-up it... will re-up it and then Gabe’s scent will just be there always which I just feel like that helps with the easiness of the quest. I’m not going to say it’s easy, but compared to later books it was very…[pause]

R: And I have not read any of the later books and we’re talking about them one book at time...

D: ...Right, sorry...

N: no...

R: ...No, it’s ok.

N: ...You’re fine, just no spoilers.

R: Yeah.

N: Yeah, no that’s - that’s a really good point and I think it’s - it’s interesting that you mention that like...

R: Like she’s putting up with twelve months of abuse to protect him for two months or three months each year.

N: That actually wasn’t even what I was thinking about.

R: Oh, what were you thinking?

N: Uh, I was thinking of the point like his stuff is all hidden when he’s not there...

R: ...Mmhmm...

N: ... And that, that kinda makes it like almost that he’s almost being, he’s not just being threatened with being kicked out of his house but with - even when he’s there, it’s almost like his dad doesn’t - or his step dad doesnt want him to…

D: ...really even live there.

N: He almost wants to pretend that he doesn’t live there.


R: Yeah.

N: He’s slowly...

R: …’cause also he’s twelve...

N: Yeah.

R: Like it’s not like he went to college, is an adult, and comes back sometimes? ‘Cause like I’ve been in that dynamic where it’s like well my room is taken over because I’m gone most of the time, well I guess this is fine. But he’s twelve so like that’s really early to have that... happening. Um.

N: I mean, that just looks like to me that it’s been happening the whole time. Like this isn’t a change, he’s just never been allowed to live there...

R: ...Oh, that’s a good point….

N: That’s what that looks like to me.

D: It’s...

R: Because I doubt this...

D: ...more like a pit stop.

R: ...suddenly started when he was like eleven or something.

D: And - like something that’s very noticeable to me is how every school he’s went to it’s - every private school, it’s always a place where he can stay. Which I feel like...

R: Yeah.

N: So he’s literally being kicked out without technically being kicked out.


R: Yeah.

D: So it is like college in a sense.

R: Yeah, and like private schools aren’t like uncommon by any stretch, it’s just not something that any of us went to, um, so, it is - it is a “more common than not” of an experience for kids to be at a private school, before they’re in college, sometimes in another state or even another country, um, especially historically speaking.

D: Yeah.

R: But him not having a space when he comes back, that feels bad, that’s...

D: Something that I will say, um, is despite all the money that Gabe spending they still have like a way to get - to get him into a private school and away from them which I think, uh, at the time I was like why would that happen if he’s spending all of it, I feel like he’s helping to kick him out.

N: Yeah..

R: Well, I suspect...

D: Like don’t touch this, for me push your kid away...

R: Well, I - I think that being in the private school is probably his mom’s idea, because, i mean it [sigh] - he’s probably - Gabe’s probably fine with it because he doesn’t like...

D: ...That’s my point...

R: ...Percy being around.

D: He’s never going to touch like his private school money because he doesn’t want Percy to be there.

R: Right, but then she wants to go on a very short trip and he asks if it’s coming out of her clothing budget and that just made me very angry.


D: And like, he like - he like takes any money from them at any opportunity like when Percy comes home he’s like “I don’t have any money” and Gabe is saying “You went on the bus and it was something - something amount of currency”

R: Oh yeah, “You must have seven bucks”.

D: “You don’t have seven bucks in change, I want it now to keep my own ” which is…

R: Yeah.

N: Really not good.

D: And then…

R: ...Yep…

D: He does other stuff to try and make sure Percy doesn't ever come back ever again, which is something they’ll figure out when they read the book.

R: Yeah, so, trying to not just summarize the book, um, yeah, do you have more, like, thoughts about like the implications of that? Or like what it does - we could talk about what it like does to Sally because it’s the minor character spotlight, we’re not really talking about Percy right now. Like, do you have any idea, like, what it does to his mom? Or we can talk about how the book doesn’t show very much, what it does to his mom, either way.

D: I think we don’t see what it does to his mom, because... she doesn’t let Percy see what it does to her. Which is...

R: ...Oh yeah, good point...

D: ...which is props to Sally right there, trying to keep everything cool and under control.

R: Yeah. Given that he is twelve, yes, it is good that she’s not putting that burden on him, but also that means that it’s a lot for her to handle alone when she definitely can’t talk to her partner about it and I doubt he’s good about her having friends. Yeah, so, um, if that’s it for Sally then we can…

Topic 2: Percy Jackson and separation from peers. Begins at (13:15), CW for loss of friendship, parental death, attempted murder, discussion of parental pressure.

R: Alright for our main character first topic, uh, Percy is separated from his only friends because of the parents’ rivalry. David, did you want to elaborate on this?

D: You guys go first.

R: Ok, so there’s - there’s a point where, throughout the series there’s tension in, I don’t know if - they don’t say this explicitly but it - it feels like they are trying to figure out whether they are themselves or whether they are their parents, and it doesn’t really resolve in this book, and it doesn’t have to, it’s book one. But, there’s a moment where Annabeth, whose god… whose immortal parent is Athena, and Percy whose immortal parent is Poseidon, are trying to figure out if they can work together, and they end up saying “Ok, well I guess we can because, um, our parents had to work together to make the chariot, because the chariot needs horses.”

N: That’s such a wild, by the way, that is a wild like, “We have to work together because this - this thing needs to exist,” like...

R: Right, well it’s - like, we have - yeah. Like, “Our parents worked together to make this thing,” and like they have to work together right now to like not die, and the...

N: I feel like those are not even...

R: Like I’m saying - what I’m saying is the having...

N: ...I’m disagreeing with the book...

R: Right, having their identities like meshed with their parents and determined by their parents so much, and to be fair they’re twelve, but having their - their identities shaped so much by their parents, it’s like they, they’re like “We, Percy and Annabeth have to work together to not die, can we work together, ok good our parents made a thing together one time, it will be ok.” because before, they had a bunch of examples of Athena did this and Poseidon didn’t like it, well Poseidon did this and Athena didn’t like it, well I’m mad at you because our parents…? Like…

D: I, something that I will like to say to that is Annabeth’s identity, at least from when I read it, was more wrapped up in the parents than Percy was, because Percy spent a little bit of the time being salty at Poseidon because...

R: ...Oh, oh yeah...

D: ...he was being hunted


R: because when you’re trying to get two people to work together, the thing stopping them from working together was the rivalry between Poseidon and Athena, even though it’s mostly on the side of Annabeth caring very much about that rivalry, it - that is a good point. I do agree about that.

N: It’s a weird almost like, I don’t wanna say projected identity but like, in this series the gods aren’t directly involved in the raising of their half-human children. So, I mean like I was - I’ve been sitting here trying to think of is there a justification or a way to make - make it make sense you know, it’s like well, you know if my - my mom didn’t like this or my dad didn’t like this person than that means automatically that I’m not going to get along with someone just because they’re related. And, there - there can be situations like that?

R: Sure.

N: But the difference in the situations is that all of those people are all involved in each others lives somehow. And here, this is literally just the kids going “Well, my mommy that I may or may not have met one time when she acknowledged me, didn’t like it…”

R: Yeah.

N: “ I refuse forever,” Like that’s just a huge...

R: This is kind of - I don’t know, it’s kind of like “Well, our parents are kind of snippy at each other when they talk to each other once a year at Christmas because they’re friends? But they did a college project together and it went well so we can work together too.”

N: It - it’s worse than that - it’s worse than that, it’s “My biological parents, of me, the child who doesn’t live with them, I heard one time that maybe my biological mom didn't like this person’s biological dad, so we can’t be friends ever,” like...

R: ...Yeah no, that’s literally what it is, yeah...

N: ...wait what? There’s so many more layers in between them.

R: Like she liked - we should be clear that like she - they didn’t start the book knowing that he was Poseidan’s kid? And so she was, like, hoping that he was going to be…

D: be her savior…

R: ...a child of a god that was already aligned with her parent. And then she got disappointed by that.

D: She was like, “This is important, I want do this quest,” and she was very excited for it until she’s like, “Oh you’re Poseidon’s kid, and like - oh well I guess this is not my thing, and we’re not going to work together, and I hate you now.”

R: Right.

N: Yeah, like that’s such an extreme - there - there’s just a - it just a weird, it - it really does seem like a weird projection of - of a bunch of things.

R: Yeah. And, so, you had listed this as the topic, what do you think of as the trauma for this, David?

D: Being ostracized?

R: Ok, yeah. Like being a friend and then feeling like that’s being taken away, because of not something you did? Yeah. That’s definitely what it is….

N: Well I mean this is his only friend at this point right?

R: Right.

N: Like she’s the...

R: Yeah that’s true...

N: ...she’s the only one....

R: ...and he met her a week ago, yeah...

D: ...She’s the - the only friend that - but he - he has Grover, and that’s - uh, kind of about it? And he’s not not happy, that’s weird phrasing…


R: He’s only had Grover for a year and...

D: He’s only had Grover for a year and he’s not mad at him, but he’s kind of, like, not happy with him at this point.

R: By the finding out, “Oh by the way I’m fifteen years older than you, and I’ve been spying on you,” that - that’s, I feel like we should - I feel like that does go here if our topic is *Percy finding out that people he thought were his friends or would be his friends, can’t be for some reason*.

N: I mean we can almost say that this is being ostracized, but also abandonment? Because like you’re talking about it like he lost his only friend, he thought he got another one and then that - that other friend turns around and says “No actually, my mommy doesn’t like your dad? Soooo…”

D: ...And, uh...

N: “...just kidding.”

D: ...on top of that he has to, uh, deal with a new perception of reality. His mom’s dead, and not only is his friend, it’s also his way older teacher has been spying on him.

N: Ooo.

R: He’s - the - I do think it’s important that you point out that like one of his teachers was also, like then tried to kill him. Which is like a little bit beyond just rivalry, so yeah, he’s got a lot of like thinking that somebody is one person and then finding out that they’re not. Do we want to mention Luke here, because now that I think about it, Luke is in that pattern too. Like, they’re not good friends, but he, like, really looks up to him.

D: Luke was someone who took a - not really took a chance, he knew what he was doing, but Percy think he took a chance on him to be friends with, and had his back.

R: Yeah.

D: Um, and even though he - even though he couldn’t use some of the gear that he gave him, he was very happy with the fact that he was given his flying shoes, the only gift he ever got from his father.

R: Yeah, and he feels bad that he wasn’t able to use the shoes Luke lent him.

D: And then, uh, he gives them to someone else.

R: I don’t know how important the exact mechanics of that are, but like he, it - it is definitely a case of thinking that someone’s going to like him and going to get along with him, but this one’s a little worse, because Annabeth wasn’t pretending to like him, she just was disappointed when...

N: Yeah, but I mean when so many people were pretending, and then you have this person that for a reason that is, probably very wildly out of nowhere,

R: ...for Percy yeah...

N: ...just says - just says, “Actually, nevermind”, like I don’t really think at that point if it - that it matters that she wasn’t pretending, just because she’s still doing the same thing.


R: Here’s why I would say it would matter that she’s not pretending, ‘cause like, she doesn’t like ditch the quest but she’s like a little - like, they work through it in a way that he doesn’t have a chance to with any of these others.

D: Like having a group partner...

N: ...that’s true...

D: ...that you don't get along with, but you have to finish the assignment by Monday.

R: Yep, that’s - that’s definitely that...

N: But it’s like having your best friend being put in the group and then you have a falling out but you still have to finish the project.

D: Right.

R: Oh I had that happen, it was terrible, um… Yeah.

D: But there’s - there’s that, and like the first scene that we like meet Annabeth, she’s interrogating him because she thinks that he’s going to be the one to get her her shot.

R: Yeah, like she’s trying to figure out whether it’s going to work, and she even says like “Well, as long as you’re basically anyone but Poseidon it’ll be fine.”

N: Like, oh no!

D: Oh, [it] cuts to the river, and she’s like “well you’re dead to me.”

R: It’s not, not quite, but...

N: Almost. I feel like... with this one, there’s an interesting ongoing theme in this book, of Percy just, he depends on someone and then he can’t, and he depends on someone and then he can’t, and there’s - this - this, and I don’t wanna - I don’t wanna go into the other books but I - I think it is, it’s an interesting set up, it’s almost a very stereotypical set up for a character that’s going to have this “well I can be everything by myself” kind of almost revelation, and um, it's just very consistent. But it’s consistent in a tragic way, it’s not consistent in a “We’re building you up as a person” way. Um, any other thoughts? Anything else that we’ve skipped?

D: uh, nothing else without giving away spoilers.

N: Spoilers for other books?

D: Not other books, I mean like, for kind of for the beginning of this book.

N: You can, you can give away spoilers in this book, that’s fine.

D: Well it’s - it’s more like an add on, but it wasn’t even like there - it was revealed to him when it had to, he figured out that Grover was - was spying on him, not being told but, like literally, eavesdropping on his conversation with his teacher and finds out in both that moment like they're… something else that I just thought would also hurt.

N: Yeah...

D: Because it wasn’t even...

N: ...Yeah...

D: wasn’t even the situation’s too tense, it was more of a figuring out that the two friends you’re friends with are talking about you behind your back, which sucks.

N: Yeah, and that’s a whole - that’s a whole other level of betrayal. That’s just another layer.

D: Before the supernatural elements there it’s just two people he really liked and admired and they[‘re] both like, “I don’t know if we can tell him.” “Tell him what?” It’s - so it’s not like - like trash talking but it’s like...

N: ...No...

D: It still hurts when your friends have a secret concerning you, but won’t tell you.

N: Well, especially a secret that can hurt you...

D: Exactly....

N: ...concerning you.

R: And I don’t think it necessarily matters whether it was helpful, or whether it was a positive or negative secret, because the whole point is he doesn’t know which one it is.

N: Right, right. It’s not - it’s not like “ Ooo... birthday party,” it’s like ehh...

R: Yeah.

D: It’s like, “Oh - oh father’s back in town, should we tell him?” He doesn’t know who his father is.

R: [laughs]

N: Like, “He won’t miss him if we never say anything”.

D: It - it’s like, uh, in stupid sitcoms where it’s like the parents spend the money that was given to them by grandparents, and it’s like “He won’t miss it if he did - didn’t know it exists,” and then there’s a whole other plot.

R: What sitcoms are you watching? To be fair, I don’t watch sitcoms. That sounds terrible.

D: Yeah, but after you've gone on for eight seasons what’s left can you do.

N: Are you referencing “Baby Daddy”?

D: Yes.

R: Ok.

N: I am sad that I could figure that out from context.

R: [laughs]

D: Oof.

N: And I don’t watch “Baby Daddy” to be clear.


R: Alright.

Topic 3: Percy Jackson and false accusation. Begins at (25:34), CW for mention of police, betrayal, hunting, mention of sex.

R: Alright...

D: Alright!

R: Our second, uh, topic for Percy as our main character, is that he gets falsely accused of a crime, and hunted down, uh, as punishment, retribution, whichever.

D: Uh, I was - I listed only three people hunting him, but there’s actually four, because he’s also on the run from the police.

N: There’s a - there’s a mundane hunter as well.

R: And by “I’ve listed” you mean you typed down, so for the listeners; he’s chased by Hades, Ares, Zeus, and also the human police.

N: [Laughs], and those people.

D: And the inhuman police if you think about it.

N: That’s accurate. Uh, so I thought this was… oh - ok, so it is... I do want to kind of say, before we really get into the nitty gritty here, it is kind of a - a pretty common multicultural global theme, that when the gods give out punishments, it does not fit the crime by human standards.

R: Mmhmm.

N: Um, so with that being said, we are still talking about the trauma inflicted on a twelve year old human/half human child.

R: Yes.

N: So, yes we know, that that’s very common and consistent with literature, however...

R:...Just because it’s common..., its effect on Percy...

R: ...doesn’t mean it’s not traumatic.

N: Yeah, its effect on Percy is still gonna be the - it’s still gonna be a - a, the punishment does not fit the crime scenario for him.

D: Yeah, and he was framed by a friend.

R: Yeah!

N: Right? Uh…

R: Yeah...

N: ...hailing back a little bit to our - to our second topic of the episode.

R: Yeah, I’d mentioned Luke not really being friends with him; Luke set him up. Set him up for this whole thing.

D: Well, that was - that was the point. And then he gave him something that would drag him to literal where every monster spawns, and hoping they devour him. So...

R: Oh, I hadn’t thought about - oh wait...

D: And that would - that would get all three big three player gods mad at each other, because Percy would have died in the underworld, meaning Poseidon would be mad at Hades, and Hades would be mad at Poseidon because he thinks his son stole his helm, and Zeus is mad at Poseidon because…

R: ...He thinks the kid stole, yeah.

D: ...uh he thinks...

R: ...Stole his bolt…

D: gets stolen by Percy, and then he’s mad at Hades because he thinks that Hades has the bolt because Percy died in the underworld.

N: It’s just really...

R: ...I hadn’t thought...

N: ...convoluted.

R: ...I hadn’t thought through that whole triangle. That is, that is amazing.


N: So, actually following up on that, just wanna - I just wanna kind of go through, um, David what you had written down before. Uh, so we have multiple reasons why, just as a followup to what you just said. So, Ares is not actually hunting Percy to kill him…

D: ...It is to hunt him to...

N: ...Which is good because Ares would be the most accurate if he were aiming to be deadly...

R: For those...

N: this group.

R: ...not up on Greek mythology, Ares is the god of war.

N: Yeah, Ares - Ares is the - the hunter in this scenario. He’s just hunting him to scare him, which, speaking of punishment doesn’t fit the crime.

D: It’s to scare him, to kind of help him, and to kinda make sure the bolt gets there. And his motivation for doing that is, it’s a big war.

N: Yeah, which is not a great excuse. Um, Zeus wanted a reason to kill him, and basically went “Aha! My chance!”

D: Yeah, and - sorry...

N: ...There’s a lot to unpack there...

D: …another thing I want to say to Ares was, sorry was...

N: You’re fine...

D: ...Um, I like - I do however like how, even though it’s a very simple kind of weird reason why he wants it, it’s a lot more simple then carrying another plot point of oh Zeus, and Poseidon, and Hades all put me aside and stuff.

N: Yeah.

R: Can we, on the punishment doesn’t fit a - the crime, since that's the topic here, can we pause a second to talk about how the half blood kids a - they don’t want them because they attract monsters, but they attract monsters because the gods don’t like them and there’s a lot of monsters around? Like, what like circular bullshit is that? ‘Cause this is the Patreon episode and we can swear. Like what - why is that happening like, that - I just thought - I just realized that, I don’t know, that reminds me, ah, that reminds me of the whole like, “We can’t have gay people in the FBI because we might get blackmailed”, why would they get blackmailed, “Because we can’t have gay people in the FBI,” like it reminds me of that, like, really really terrible loop...

N: ...Oh yeah...

R: ...where the only reason it’s a problem is because you don’t like it, and so then you justify that it’s a problem by saying “Well some people don’t like it.” Yeah, you!

D: [laughs]

N: You the thing.

D: I shouldn’t laugh, I’m sorry.

R: Like that - that feels like a little bit of the loop that’s happening here.

N: It is, it is.

R: Given that each god controls a certain type of monster, because that seems to be how it works.

D: ‘Cause like - ‘cause Poseidon literally makes the cyclopses that try and kill people.

R: Yeah.

D: Um, so something that I will say with that is, um, something I can put also with like - what I like what the author did, is he how captured the kind of, like, alienness and like, uh, not human way about the gods. And that because their lives are already so short, why stop it?

R: Oh yeah, like...

D: So, it’s - it’s kinda like...

R: ...“You weren’t using that.”

D: … it’s kinda like - I’m trying to find the perfect analogy. It’s kinda like, well, why would I say - it’s - ooh I’m not going to use that one nevermind.

R: Yeah. Well, yeah they’re saying “Your life is short so it doesn’t matter anyway, I’ll just take it,” and the humans are like “But that is literally the only life I have, please don’t...

D: ...It’s literally the point of life...

R: “...take it,” like.

D: that - that I will die, so why don’t we try to prolong it so I can do more things.


R: Yea.

D: It’s - it’s stuff like that and...

R: ...or you could let me live my own natural life, and I’ll be out of your hair soon.

N: [laughs]

D: And something that goes into like - something that goes back to the Percy section, but how Poseidon says, uh - and this goes for both ways, Poseidon says he doesn’t know what to make of them. And so, he regrets - regrets that Percy exists and it’s like “Hey, I got you,” but at the same time, um, isn’t really gonna care [long pause] if any of them die, which is why they don’t always step in.

R: Right.

D: And there’s also the error of like - kind of like the parentness of “Well if I step in every time you won’t learn anything.” It’s like “Well, yeah, but it’s your enemy that you should be dealing with...”

N: Yeah, like this isn’t stepping in, this is you being responsible. But...

D: ...Accountable for your own actions...

N: ...we can’t have that. Yeah.

D: But you know what - but you know what? It’s accountableness - accountableness.

R: Accountability.

D: Accountability, and having petty feuds with monsters and each other. Like how, uh, some gods won’t do heroes a solid because they don’t like their parents. It’s kind of a little - it’s like, and I will say another thing that goes off to like the - the hunted by other monsters and gods, is because, I’m sorry we should’ve - it kinda goes into both sections like I say it again, um is the fact that Percy isn’t supposed to exist because there’s a pact.

N: That’s - that is - I mean that’s why Zeus is targeting him.

D: Yeah, it’s why he targets him, but it’s also kind of hypocritical.

R: Yeah, that’s the thing I was saying with like, “Yeah, it’s a crime you exist because we shouldn’t have done something.” It’s like, “Well you did, and I’m here now. I would like...

N: “...I exist now…”

R: ...I would like to live please.”

D: It’s like “You - you put me in crap conditions my entire life.” Um, and something that we didn’t say about Sally, but I’m gonna say here because it goes back to Poseidon again, is how it is revealed how Poseidon gave her a way out but she is so... she’s the kind of person that wants to get like, uh, fortune and fame by her own methods and not by a pat down from someone higher up.

R: What way out did he offer her?

D: He offered her to go into the sea and have her own palace.

R: Oh yeah, and she wanted to stay human.

D: She wanted to still be human and she want to learn how to get there by herself and not rely on this one connection.

R: Yeah.

D: Which is also - also providing a war, because if she did go down there, then Hades and Zeus would not be angry. Not - not be angry, would be angry.


N: Yeah. Um, the one last thing, so, Percy here also, I just want to kind of add a layer to this - this whole thing. Uh, Percy is tried as an adult. Not only does the punishment not fit the crime, for a human, but also, he’s not given the chance to be a child, grow and learn even - even if he was accurately accused, even he if had actually done it, he is given no chance to - to grow up and - and learn better, um, so you know if you want to kind of add layers of horrific complexity here.

R: Yeah.

D: You know - Olympian baseball is very hard to play because it’s one strike you’re out.

R: [laughs]

N: [laughs] Oh geez.

R: That’s a - that’s a good joke.

D: No penalty box, it’s the death sentence.

N: No penalty box, just the - gormogon pit.

R: The gormogon is not from Olympus, that...

N: I don’t care at all.

R: That’s...

D: We throw you into Tartarus in pieces, like our father

R: That - that’s a DND monster, and then “Stranger Things”. That is not...

N: Problem?

R: Do you mean the gorgons? Like Medusa and her sisters and gorgons.

N: No, I would never throw Medus under the bus like that, how dare you.

R: Ok.

D: Something I will say, something that goes along with being hunted is the fact that he does like - well - does get help from like Poseidon and stuff, I will mention that which is nice on the other hand is he does get in trouble...

N: ...that’s nice...

D: …but also - spared because Poseidon did and didn’t do something. Like when they go to Medusa’s garden, she doesn’t - she’s like “Oh, I’m going to kill the satyr and Annabeth because, you know, they’re here. But you, you’re just gonna be a nice lovely statue because you have your father’s eyes.” And, kind of like “Harry Potter”, it’s always mentioned that he looks like his father, um, and I also think that’s very creepy, because he is twelve.

R: Yeah, people who have had like - adult interactions with his father are like “You look just like your dad.” Like that’s creepy, go away, stop saying that.

D: It’s - it’s bad but she’s like “I’m gonna kill - I’m gonna kill you Annabeth, because your mom stopped me from getting freaky with Poseidon so, you’re dead.”

R: Yep.

Spoiler-free recap and ratings. Begins at (37:30).

R: Alright! Time for the wrap up and ratings.

R: For our gratuity rating for Percy’s mom and the associated events, uh, that’s mostly backstory and offscreen. Um...

N: ...Yeah, we don’t have any…

R: ...when it’s...

N: ... actual scenes with this do we? We just kind of have Percy head knowledge? Mosty?

R: We have some scenes that make him realize things, we do have some of those...

D: ...We have some detective putting stuff together...

R: ...when - when they are on screen, are they mild, moderate, or severe? I’m debating between mild and moderate. Because there are a couple of shocking moments.

D: I will say it was gonna be like [long pause] - moderate? Because at the beginning like he’s - he’s just an asshole.

R: Ok.

D: But at the end...

N: ...No details, David.

R: Yeah no details.

N: No details.

R: You can just say, “Towards the beginning…”

D: Towards the beginning...

R: “…it is more moderate.”

D: was hardly noticeable but during the - during the end it was like well that’s - that’s bad, that - that’s fuckedup.

R: Yeah, but it’s not like a very graphic depiction, and that’s more what we’re looking at, so like is it a graphic depiction for the reader? ...and I think, it might stay mild. It makes you aware of a thing so that if it happened on screen it could be a lot worse but the actual description is more bad in its implications.

N: That’s... true.

R: I’m cool with either mild or moderate, it is, it’s on the edge.

N: I would put moderate, just because it is on the edge, and so if you are a listener who is...

R: ...This is not the worst thing ever but for this thing it is pretty...

D: ...The author went as far as...

R: ...specifically depicted.

N: Yeah - yeah and - and I would say like, especially if you’re someone who's listening to this podcast with the intent of deciding whether or not you can read this, we’re going to rate this moderate because, better safe than sorry, you know because if it’s walking a line...


N: Okay, Percy with separation from friends. I - this is not mild - it’s not mild.

R: It’s severe. It is...

N: It’s severe?

R:’s severe, it’s most of the book, it’s pervasive, it’s constant...

N: ... it just happens over and over...

R: ...there’s a bunch of different ways of showing it.

N: Yeah yeah yeah.

R: There’s so many that as we were listing things we kept finding more and more and more things that all fit this theme well beyond the initial incident that made us land on it as a topic. It's severe. It is not the worst thing that someone can go through, but is a very brutal depiction of this thing.

D: Right.

Mild/moderate/severe false accusation 40:37-42:38

R: Um, and then the false accusation. I’d actually call this moderate. [long pause] Yeah, like it’s, I don’t know, it’s like - there’s like a lot of it but every individual bit of it isn’t, like, terrible. There’s a lot of jocularity of like, “Boy, you know, this could have been a lot worse.” Like... I’m ok with calling it severe, but since, it - it gets neatly averted in time, like if it hadn’t gotten averted...

N: That’s true, it’s averted in a lot of… a couple different ways.

R: If the long term consequences hadn't gotten averted by him being a hero and saving the day...

N: ...Yes! Ok…

R: ...then it would be a lot worse.

N: I’m - I’m with you on that because, if that scene had played out to its, call it “natural conclusion”, it would have been incredibly severe.

R: Right.

D: Uh...

R: Do you know what we mean David?

D: I know what you mean, I am also thinking through it, um.

N: Ok.

R: Do you agree or disagree on moderate for...

N: ...Because it’s not mild...

R: ...for the false accusation. Oh no, it’s not mild. There’s too much of it for it to count as mild.

D: If we - we consider it mild we’d have to discredit ourselves from...

R: I’d also say that some of it is backstory. Like there is a fair amount where it’s like, we know how bad this could be, because we know the history of all the stuff...

N: ... But that doesn’t...

R: ...that the gods involved have done in the past.

N: ...but that doesn’t make the actual trauma backstory.

R: That’s true.

N: That just makes the - that just means that the book has like, a build up of any kind.

R: Yeah.

D: Right.

N: I’m ok with moderate.

R: Okay!

N: I would - I would not be ok with mild, but I’m ok with moderate.

R: No no no.

D: I’m - I’m alright with moderate. Yeah, it’s - it’s the fact that it’s not gonna, um, it’s the fact that it’s kind of swept under the rug because it’s a hero.

N: Yeah.


N: Um, ok. So, Percy’s mom with “why this trama”.

R: It...

N: ...Integral/interchangeable/ or irrelevant, just a reminder for David.

R: Um, I think it’s interchangeable.

N: It’s definitely… yeah...

R: I think...

N:’s definitely not integral because there are a lot of different ways that he could have been free to roam.

R: Yeah.

N: Actually, some of them are built into the story.

D: Should we...

N: ...Actually…

D: ...should we just kind of find...

N: ...actually, I’m gonna - I’m gonna say that it’s irrelevant.

R: Irrelevant? Oh.

N: I’m gonna say it’s irrelevant because...

R: ...That’s a bold choice...

N: ...because in the book we actually have built in reason why he is gone from his house for up to ten months of the year.

R: Ohhhh. And so if he had just been gone... more...

N: Yeah, if he had just been enrolled at this camp by his mom, that would have been a reason.

R: ‘Cause the camp has existed for awhile.

N: Right, and because not every child at that camp is a runaway.

D: Mmhmm. In fact, it’s also told that it can be year-round

N: Yeah. Yeah, so I - I actually think this is irrelevant, because the way the world is constructed, it gives us other reasons that he could have been free to just go off and have adventures.

D: ...There’s another way to decide [unintelligible] to drive it into the ocean...

R: ...It - it informs - it informs our understanding of his mom’s personality, so I see why it was in there?

N: Oh no, it makes sense that it was in there...

R: ...But...

N: ...but as far as it being essential to the plot or...

R: ...right...

N: it doesn’t actually forward the plot other than the author said “I want this to forward the plot” but there was other built in ways for that to happen.

D: To keep Sally the same person.

R: And I’m sure it will get built on in later books, maybe, but it didn’t have to be there in the first place.

D: Yeah.

R: Ok.


R: The separation from friends, it is integral to the plot. Not necessarily every single instance of it? But, many of the instances were integral, um, I would say maybe one or two of them were interchangeable, um.

N: I mean, well if we're talking about it as an idea, as a concept, it is - it is integral because it fuels, a concept, as a theme it fuels a lot of the decisions that - that Percy makes.

R: Yeah. If there were fewer of them it wouldn't feel like a theme in the book...

N: ...Well if there were fewer of them it...

R: ...if there were more of them...

N: ...if - if any one of them was taken away, in that moment he would have had different choices to make and it would have changed the book...

R: ...Oh yeah that’s true...

N: ...That’s my argument.

R: Oh yeah that’s integral.

D: Alright.

R: Alright, David what do you think for the false accusation, now that you have a sense for how we’re saying it? Do you think the false accusations were integral, interchangeable, or irrelevant?

D: I think... the accusations were... important. And I don’t know exactly which one, because integral and the other one.

R: Ok, so integral is if you pulled it out and swapped it for something else, would it have changed the entire book. Interchangeable is you could have had some other trauma that served a very similar function, such that you wouldn’t have to change very much of the book.

N: But you needed…

R: ...Irrelevant…

N: ...something in that spot.

R: But you needed something.

N: Yeah.

R: Irrelevant is that you - it didn’t matter whether it was there at all, you could remove it without affecting the story at all. Like - like it doesn’t, um and this, don’t keep it in the recording, but like David it doesn’t matter that Grover eats tin cans.

N: [laughs]

R: That doesn’t matter. It’s fun; it doesn’t change the plot. There’s no moment where having a tin can in his back pocket saves his life, like it doesn’t matter.

N: [laughs]

D: It’s - it’s, he does it to help waste go down, while it is a fun tidbit of his character, you could just have it be fruit.

R: Right.

D: And compost.

R: Right. It could have been just apples, it could have been that he can’t stand - he can’t stop eating peoples books because they’re paper, like it could have been anything.

D: So like, “Yes! This one’s recycled paper.”

R: ...So like swapping, yeah, swapping it for books would be interchangeable, totally irrelevant would be like, he didn’t have to keep eating stuff.

D: Yeah.

R: So...

D: ...Alright...

R: ...back to the thing, so.

D: I think the thing with him being falsely accused was very important. I think it sets up the conflict in a nice way.

R: Yeah.

N: Could it have been swapped out for a different trauma that served the same purpose? Or do you think it was the only thing that could go there and have this book stay the same?

R: Is there a way for the story to happen if he doesn’t get falsely accused?

D: No, because.

R: Ok.

N: Ok! Then that’s it. That's the answer...

R: That's it.

N:’s integral

R: And I - I do agree on that one.

N: Yeah, same. I actually wrote down integral already, and then would only have changed it if you had a really good argument for something else. [laughs]


R: Alright, so now is, “was the trauma treated with care”. So this is like the language, the phrasing, um, and our - our general idea for this is, is it done in a way that would be really stressful or traumatic for the reader. Like does the book inflict the trauma emotionally on the reader just by how it’s described in the text. That’s the - the.

N: That’s the short version.


N: yeah, um.

R: So - so with the stuff with Percy’s mom, um.

N: So we have; not treated with care, treated with some care, or - or treated with not enough care, then we have treated with treated with enough care, and then we have yes it was just treated with care. So we have no, not enough, enough, and yes.

D: You guys go first.

R: Ok.

N: Alright, um.

R: So, for Percy’s mom, I feel like, I don’t - I feel like - [sigh] like it wasn’t done badly, but this is somewhere between not enough and enough and I’m not sure which way it goes, and...

N: I think that the fact that it - a lot of the things that we talked about were not even things that through a first read through had been kind of picked up until we started looking at it, looking for trauma, puts it at enough. Because, it took - like David you had actually said at - at the beginning, you know like you didn’t realize that it was this bad in the book,

D: ...It’s…

N: ...until you started listening and looking for things like this…

D: ...yeah…

N: ...and I think that - I think that the fact that you had to look to find it kind of shoves it into that…

D: ...Like…

N: was treated with enough care.

D: Like as a kid there's a certain scene, and because this is a kids book, it tells - it literally tells the audience “This is bad”, but, if...

N: ...Right…

D: ... - but if it wasn’t…

N: ...but you don’t get a lot of implications, yeah...

D: ...handled in that way. But it wasn't something my brain lingered on. It wasn’t like “Oh my god this happened”, it was like, “alright”.

N: Right, and - and I think maybe without that scene it might have just been swept under the rug almost, and that would have been enough care. it would’ve - it would’ve just been treated with care, but yeah. That scene means you can’t just gloss over it but also it’s not *happening* as you’re reading it, um.


R: Alright, and then Percy being separated from his friends. I... I’m going to go ahead and say, I’m going to say enough? Because, part - the descriptions of this are bleak to get impact, but they're not - they're not bad, they're not too much, they're just like...

N: Percy doesn’t just sit around...

R: ...They’re very blunt...

N: ...thinking about how he’s all alone.

D: Right.

N: That doesn’t happen.

R: Yeah

N: Yeah - yeah and I - I think if it did that would put this to not treated with care, but um.

R: I think it - I think it is enough.

N: I think it’s enough, I think, I think this one is difficult because, the - it’s almost, it’s - you know what I almost want to say, this is a weird one, because I think it was treated with enough care but I think the reason it was treated with enough care is because it was used as a plot device and it didn't really have actual personal consequences for Percy.

R: Oh [surprised], ok.

N: I think that this is a - I don’t think this is treated with care, because the character going through trauma wasn’t treated with care, didn’t get a chance to really heal or work through it. It just kind of happened, and happened, and happened, and happened, and happened, and then the plot forward.

R: That tempts me to say not enough, like not in a way that would dissuade me from like recommending it to anybody, but like, not - this could - it doesn’t feel like the book was thinking, like the author was thinking of *this* as *trauma*.

N: Yes. Like I almost - almost feel like the character, and - and it might just be the audience this was written for and it might just be the way the book was done.

D: I was about to say the way that Disney will - will.

N: That’s true, that’s true, this was published with Disney in mind.

D: It’s a Disney book, and unlike... and apparently the Disney book people care about the audiences than the Disney movie people

R: [laughs nervously]

N: Hmm, ok, so then we - we can blame Disney instead of the author? [trails off]

D: Production.

R: I don’t know if we want to start out our bonus episodes...

N: ...No, we won’t do that, we won’t do that...

R: ...blaming Disney...

N: ...I’ll cut that. Um, no, so - so in that case it might not be the author who put strictures on this. But I - I agree, I think that maybe that takes this to “not enough”.

D: It’s a kids book and maybe someone said “Hey, this is how far you can go.”

N: Yeah.

R: Well, I mean. Ok, I - do I think. Sorry I’m going to let my audio calm down for a second, I’m getting weird spikes. Ok they stopped.

N: Oh.

R: Um, I think that because it is not framed in the book as a traumatic event but this thing keeps happening over, and over, and over, i think that it’s, it’s either just enough or not quite enough, like I think it’s on that edge. Um, where...

D: …[sings] Cliff hanger, hanging on a cliff.

N: [laughs]

R: Yeah, it’s - it’s, I’m gonna - I’m gonna say enough care, like for the things that fits this pattern that the book clearly thinks of as traumatic events, like the one at the very, very start, um, and a reveal at the very, very end, like it clearly treats those as traumatic events and has enough care. I just, I don't know how much awareness this was that it is a pervasive theme

D: Right.

R: And I don’t want to assume the author didn’t know their own book or anything.

N: Oh no. Uh, this author is incredibly deliberate…

D: ...It is...

N: ...with the things they put in and don’t put in the book.

D: And another thing I wanted to say was, uh, this story was not like off like the top of his head? But this originally wasn’t supposed to be published. This was a bedtime story he was reading his kid. He read um, a Greek...

N: ...That does put some different context, yeah.

D: He did - He read Greek mythology to his kid, um, as like a bedtime story and then when it came, people were like “You should publish this because it’s really good”, and it started into a series.

R: Okay. Ok, um, alright.

N: So in that case - in that case I think it was enough, because with that context that’s not something you would want to dwell on.


R: Yep, alright, and then to the false accusation, i’m going to say like enough care, like, it’s the main thing in the plot, it’s driving so much of it, and...

N: I don’t think it could have been treated with more care without pulling away from the story and lessening the impact that was necessary.

R: So you’re just going to say treated with care?

N: I’m just going to say enough. I’m - I’m going to say…

R: ...Enough, ok...

N: ...I’m gonna say I don’t think it could have been treated with more without a problem, but there’s enough of a description of what’s happening in the book that I think it’s just enough.

D: Right.

R: Yeah. Um, it definitely wasn’t like a “handled gently” moment.

N: Right.


R: Um, moving on to the point of view. Ah, so for the stuff with Percy’s mom, we never get her point of view.

N: Right.

R: And, we never get her point of view of what’s happening to her which also, you know, keeps it in the zone for a kids book because we don’t have an adult perspective of how awful this is every day in a kids book? But it also means that, me reading it as an adult, I’m like, “Oh, oh her life is so bad it’s so bad… uh, it - it’s so bad why is she doing that,” but...

D: [laughs] ...sorry...

R: …it [stammers] - if it weren’t a kids book I would be - I would take issue with never taking the perspective of the person being traumatized? But... I’m not worried about it in this book, it is the right decision for this book, it’s about him. It’s tangentially about his mom’s life, it’s not trying to be about her stuff that’s going on. Um, but, it also like, it - it blunts the description…

N: ...I mean it is...

R: blunts the impact.

N: Yeah. Ok, um, separation from friends. We just get him right?

R: Yeah it’s him this whole book.

N: That’s it. Do we get...

R: ...That’s the easy answer...

N: we get, no we don’t get anybody else’s perspective...

R: ...we never get anybody else.

N: we? So literally all three of these it’s just Percy...

R: ...All three of these, yeah.

N: ...that’s it, that’s all we have. Um.

R: Um, though interestingly i do want to talk about - to me it’s different from the minor character topic to the main character topics because when it’s the minor character it does do a different thing when we don’t have the perspective of the person being traumatized, and then for the other two where he is the main character and he is the narrator, we do have his perspective.

N: That’s true.

R: Yeah, that’s - that’s, really the only other thing I really wanted to highlight in how those are different. Um, but the two main topics: well it’s happening to him and it’s his perspective. It does mean that we don’t have the [perspective inside the heads of the friends who become separated from him for various reasons. And so we just have his reaction and we don’t have anything about *why* in their own thoughts, we just get whatever they do or do not say out loud. So.

N: Yeah.


R: Um, alright, for the aspiring writer tip; David is there anything you would recommend to someone writing this kind of book: a book for kids with fantastical adventures?

N: And, it can be good or bad.

R: Yeah, either do this or please don’t, either way.

D: I like... something that I think should happen is, under - I like how they kinda understood the character, and I like how - how well he portrayed the gods. It was, their - their nice nature but also how it was clear that even though “I, like, care for you because you’re - because I love you,” but also at the same time it’s, I don’t know what it was, I think it was handled very well.


D: So don’t sacrifice character development for a happy ending.

R: Oh, ok!

N: Alright, I like that one!

R: Yeah!

N: That works.

R: Nice and pythy.

N:That’s also not quite where I thought you were going, so I... but, that, yeah. Yes.

D: It wasn’t - it wasn’t like “Oh you’re back, oh fireworks.” It was also like “Yeah you completed the quest, but I kinda wish you didn’t exist.”

N: Oof.

D: And that’s something they kinda have to go through the entire series and I like that.

N: Ok.


R: Yeah. so we’ll look out for more in other books. All right, Niki, what’s your favorite non-traumatic thing about this book?

N: My favorite non-traumatic thing, oh my gosh, I kind of mentioned it before, I like that non-humans are not human.

R: Oh yeah.

N: Grover eats tin cans.

R: I consider that...

D: ...During the hacky sack...

R: ...not a spoiler

D: ...he eats the apple instead..

R: [chuckles]

N: Yeah, like I just I like - I love very much when I get books, and particularly this book is just done in such a silly, but not demeaning, it’s just fun, way, when books have non-human sentient characters, that legitimately don’t feel like a people that is just described as looking not human.

R: Yeah.

N: Um, because there’s so many books out there that they're like “Oh yeah, I have this alien creature who think and acts and talks and speaks and works and does things the way the rest of the human mem[ber]... - crew does, and oh we know they’re an alien because everytime they walk into a room they’re introduced as being the alien….

D: ...It’s my alien friend over there...

N: ...and it’s very...

D: ...sorry.

N: …“My alien friend” that if you just...

D: ...Yup, no argument there.

N: ...broke down their dialogue would sound like a person. And yeah, and I just really like - and I also like that it’s not some deep dark monster change, like no! It’s just “Grover eats tin cans”, it’s just - it’s just funny.

R: Yeah.

N: Um, but it - it very much - it adds to - and it makes it so those characters are not people, that’s not what people can do.

R: Mmhmm.

N: So, I like it. And it does it like I said, without infantilizing or dehumanizing the character. It doesn’t make them a token object that just wanders around doing adventures. Like, no they’re a fully...

R: ... Yeah, it doesn’t other them...

N: ...fledged entity. No not at all. Not at all.

R: It doesn’t other them but it makes sure you know they are *not* human.

N: They are clearly the non-human, just as included, just as important, just as “realized” member of the group.

R: Alright uh...

N: ...That’s my favorite part of this book...

R: favorite thing, my favorite non-traumatic thing; um, Chiron, the centaur.

D: Yea...

R: Uh, I love horses, I love centaurs...

D: ...The baddest centaur in town...

R: ...I just like the depiction of him? And his solution for pretending to be a human, I do not want to spoil it. His solution for how to appear human when he needs to is - is really interesting and well done, um, it suddenly makes me worried about ableism in the books, just thinking about it, uh, hmm, wait no. I'm gonna rethink on whether that’s my favorite thing. So maybe cut that, because I got all of a sudden worried that he is - he is appropriating having a disability in order to appear human, in a way...

N: ...I don’t think... so.


D: I mean, he can’t go anywhere that’s not - like anywhere that’s meant for humans without a wheelchair, I’d call that a disability.

R: Ok, alright. Let me cut that digresion. Ok, so, I - restating: my favorite non-traumatic thing about the book is Chiron’s solution to needing to appear human sometimes. I like - I like the character, I like his - it’s an interesting way to do it, and I like it a whole lot. I don’t want to spoil it because the reveal in the book is a really cool moment...

D: ...It is...

R:, um, leave that. David, what was your favorite non-traumatic thing?

D: My favorite non-traumatic thing?

R: Mmhmm. So this would be like anything where even though it might happen with trauma stuff, like the thing you’re liking isn’t the depiction of it.

D: Seeing...

R: ...Ideally isn’t something we’ve mentioned at all.

D: It’s - you could look at it both ways, my favorite thing was them in the carriage with the animals and setting the animals free.

R: Ok, alright.

D:That was a very - in my opinion, that was a very, not light moment, but very, like they were, like happy...

N: ...Like wholesome moment...

D: ... they set the animals free.

R: Ok, wholesome, yeah.

D: Wholesome, something it was - something that they didn’t need to do but they did it because they were good and because, it was nice.

N: ‘Cause they could, right?

D: Because they could, and we get character development uh, for Percy and Annabeth.

R: Mmhmm. So the scene in the truck with the animals?

D: Yeah.

R: Ok.

D: It was - the development was needed, but the fact that they took the extra time to, even though they were on a time sensitive, to help the animals get free, it was good.

R: Yeah. I like that you thought it was a carriage, it’s a truck.

D: Well, that’s - that’s what my brain immediately thought because, I was thinking of animal cruelty.

Outro: Begins at (1:05:11).

R: Mmhm. Alright, so, uh, that’s it for uh, the “Lightning Thief”. Thank you so much for joining us David.

D: Thank you for having me.

R: And we will catch you next month, uh.

N: Well, well probably, more realistically we’ll see you next week, ‘cause I think these are going up randomly.

D: Shhh...

R: No these are not random. These are every single month for Patrons. So David, we will see you next month.

N: See you next month is how we’re gonna, ok.

D: See you next month, thank you.

[Outro Music]